Computers have been dumbed down and simplified for the masses. When I was a kid a computer did not cooperate until you raised your voice.
I do industrial programming. Everything is so far behind that yelling at the “computers” does nothing. Physical violence is just about the only thing they respect.
Percussive maintenance is surprisingly helpful a lot of the time.
Until your trackpad is acting up a bit and you become so frustrated you smack it and now it hardly ever works.
Same with flinging a laptop across the room, which ultimately became my excuse to replace a 12yo Sony laptop.
As long as you don’t let too much magic smoke escape.
If the magic smoke comes out, that’s entirely the electrician/electrical designer’s fault. Their circuits shouldn’t have let me do that.
Hey now, the NEC provides ample protection against user stupidity, and I do my damndest to take it a step further. If a user is able to do something so catastrophically stupid despite me better engineering efforts, perhaps they should read up on darwinism.
Signed, an electrician.
This often devolves into Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.
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More flies with honey they say… but i still cant get this usb right the first try.
therapeutic at least
It broke my previous laptop’s hard drive because it wasn’t an ssd.
That’s where the term punch card comes from
FORTRAN? More like, these hands. Put 'em up, numb nuts.
I would love to have more effective means to threaten inanimate objects.
Tbh, that sounds super interesting.
Hello, COMPUTER!!!
SLAMS DESK HELLO!
FathER!
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Use the mouse, duh.
Yeah, newer generations have been raised on tech that “just worked” consistently. They never had to do any deep troubleshooting, because they never encountered any major issues. They grew up in a world where the hard problems were already figured out, so they were insulated from a lot of the issues that allowed millennials to learn.
They never got a BSOD from a faulty USB driver. They never had to reinstall an OS after using Limewire to download “Linkin_Park-Numb.mp3.exe” on the family computer. Or hell, even if they did get tricked by a malicious download, the computer’s anti-virus automatically killed it before they were even able to open it. They never had to manually install OS updates. They never had to figure out how to get their sound card working with a new game. They never had to manually configure their network settings.
All of these things were chances for millennials to learn. But since the younger generations never encountered any issues, they never had to figure their own shit out.
Or reinstall the OS on the family computer because one of your dumbass siblings downloaded a sUpeR cOoL song from one of their friends on MSN Messenger.
It’s not so much that the tech just worked. Often it doesn’t work. The difference is that when it doesn’t work it’s not user-serviceable. Up until maybe 2010 or so, when things broke there was often something a user could do to fix them. But, especially with the introduction of locked-down mobile phone OSes, that’s not true anymore. Now it’s just “wait for an update”.
And that is why I’ll only allow my kids to use Linux!
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Even as a teenager (didn’t have a computer before that) I had infinite patience with computers, you can fix/change/make anything with enough time, nothing will be better if you get mad and ignore reading and making sure you understand what’s happening. Seeing how young people handle tech now is fucking depressing, they just click past everything without reading, get mad and rage quit after 30 seconds of something not working and think anything that’s more than two clicks/taps is too complicated.
You talking about young people or old people?
Young, most old people I know either don’t know anything and are fine with that, they get help for even the simplest things, or they can handle it themselves without problems.
we really need frutiger aero back man
And when that wasn’t enough, the fists came out.
I’m sure you meant “beat it into submission”.
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Can you summarize this in a vertical video? I stopped reading after the third word, I’m here for memes, not to read a damned book!
This is spot on!
EDIT: This was spot on. TL;DR below.
I stopped reading after the third word, I’m here for memes, not to read a damned book!
TL;DR?
frfr no cap
On god
this. 👆👆
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I found the second part of the comment super funny.
TL;DR: User has programming and sysadmin skils.
I feel like if someone doesn’t do a TikTok remix of this… did it even happen?
… and have a dance video playing with music and flashing lights with the text over it … but not too much text because I can’t read that well
I find family guy clips with a slime squishing video underneath to be better for readability
Are you a three eyed chameleon?
“I can: Accomplish” kind of sums it up though
They’re a witch speaking in tongues! Burn them!
You just made me realize the Zoomers are actually much closer to making Warhammer 40k a reality. IT engineers are like Tech Priests to these Zoomers.
I’ve been called a wizard a lot in my career because I can google an error message.
I don’t know much of Warhammer lore, so I had to look up tech priests:
"No longer the master of its creations, the Cult Mechanicus is enslaved to the past. It maintains the glories of yesteryear with rite, dogma and edict instead of true discernment and comprehension. For instance, even the theoretically simple process of activating a vehicle’s engine is preceded by the application of ritual oils, the burning of sacred resins and the chanting of long and complex hymns. "
Its clear to me the author of this block of text was having trouble starting his vehicle’s engine, and was pissed off when he/she was asked to put in a ticket before help would be rendered to the him/her.
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If you’ve never read it Vernon Vinge a fire upon the deep had a type of programmers in the future known as programmer archaeologists. The tldr is nobody wrote new code just dug up old code and bolted it together. I used to think that was silly, after llms lately and dealing with interns I no longer think of it as fiction.
I’ve always viewed programmer archaeology is just trying to understand your old code or the team you are working withs old code and also trying to understand the why it was done this way.
I think AI coding is a programmer archeologist based on your definition, and I think I may start using that now.
01010100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01001111 01101101 01101110 01101001 01110011 01101001 01100001 01101000 00100000 01100100 01100101 01110011 01101001 01110010 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101111 01100001 01110011 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
1001001…SOS…1001001…In distress
Ahem… Preferiero El Señor Arch-Magos.
Alabadados sea El Omnissiah, tampoco, naturalamente.
“Do not cite the Deep Magic to me, Witch! I was there when it was written”
Okay but can you rotate a pdf?
Depends, my browser has mostly taken over as my pdf viewer and I think it lacks the functionality but if I were to install a cracked copy of Acrobat Pro or PhantomPDF then that’s like a 2 click operation.
I can
- reinstall VLC
oh wait that was all the dependencies VLC needed, I deleted them??, oh no, oh crap. Why isn’t my password working, help???
(real reason why my first Ubuntu distro got nuked)
I once wanted to move all the files in the folder was I in to another folder and I did something like
mv /* ../. What is important here is that I did/*and not./*. Fortunately it was only a raspberry pi so it went fast to flash the SD card.Also, how did you go about reinstalling VLC if you deleted all dependencies?
that I did
/*and not./*that’s so funny but so sad 😭😭
how did you go about reinstalling VLC if you deleted all dependencies
I just distrohopped to kubuntu instead lol
I meant, how did you delete all files??
I’d argue at a certain depth in an OS its actually harder to do things with a GUI than a command line
Why would you write machine code outside of uni! Assembly exists for a reason?
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The day I started learning Regex was the day I felt like I was really learning computers. I went from 2 hour tasks to 15 minutes.
I doubt you’d even be able to reasonably explain what they are let alone how they work to the average person outside the Millennial generation.
I fear AI data processing will replace much of the Regex skill set. Why learn Regex when the computer just does it for you… 🙄
I agree that regex is an important thing to learn. Not sure any old LLM would do a very good job, and I hope that no tool replaces people actually learning how to write regex.
I’m not sure what you mean about the average person outside the millennial generation not understanding them, though. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I don’t think the ‘average’ person in any generation knows what regex is. Unless there is some reason the average millennial was actually exposed to them and forced to understand them?
As for being doubtful that anyone could understand them aside from a millennial, I assume you’re being hyperbolic? Sort of sounds like “Kids these days can never learn what I learned!” (I’m teasing).
Anyway I’m in agreement with you. This thread did remind me of a pretty neat project that, while still requiring domain knowledge, could save some time and be a good learning tool without being as fallible of a crutch as an LLM.
Have not tried it, and am not an experienced developer, so I am curious to your thoughts/criticisms: https://github.com/pemistahl/grex
Yeah, I am exaggerating a bit, but I’ve not met anyone under the age of 25 that’s even remotely interested in putting in the effort to learn (anecdotal, I’m aware). Many have expressed wanting to learn, but then they never follow up when I try and pursue teaching anything.
And I’m not necessarily saying that the average person already understands them, but someone from our generation will probably pick them up far more quickly then your average Gen Z/Gen A.
Maybe what you’re claiming is true, I don’t know whether is ‘probable’.
I poked fun at this before, but I don’t think it came across. If I’m not mistaken, millennials were the subject of a lot of boomer complaints about “kids these days”, being called lazy or entitled etc…
Maybe zoomers are dumber, maybe they’re full of microplastics and entitlement. Or maybe this thread is an example of the “chastise the next generation” history repeating. One generation is lumped together and shat on by older generations, some of which then make similar claims about the next generation(s) all backed up with nothing but anecdotes and confirmation bias.
I’m not trying to take dig at you, but I do want to highlight the similarities between claims like these and when a boomer might’ve said “I know a millennial who spends more on coffee than I would, so millennials are bad with their money. Millennials, who are bad with their money, cant afford houses. Yet they act entitled to homeownership, and so, they are lazy.” It’s a claim that assumes something about the integrity and intelligence of a swath of people and ignores the systemic issues that made homeownership hard for many millennials compared to past generations.
Again, maybe you are right, I do not know. I don’t think, though, that boomer rhetoric that shat on millennials as a whole was particularly accurate or productive.
I certainly don’t blame them for these pitfalls I don’t think it’s laziness. It’s 100% a lack of education. Teachers have all but given up trying to get kids to pay attention in class. It’s become a snowball effect.
When I was in school, most of my classmates took it seriously and took much of the education at face value. And almost all of my classmates are people that could handle the full Office suite.
Now it seems every kid thinks they already know computers because they started with an iPad at the age of 4, but what they don’t realize is phones and tablets are the equivalent to toys.
You don’t ever actually learn how to use a phone. Just individual apps. People don’t even really browse the internet blindly anymore.
I think it’s probably the difference that a lot of boomers probably saw with cars in the 2000s-2010s. It used to be everyone had a rough idea of how a car worked and most people could learn in a year or two how to do basic stuff.
Now it’s all a closed magic box requiring a full technical degree. Phones fell the same. Its a magic box that they never had the opportunity to wonder how it worked.
That’s a good idea actually. I hate writing regex, so I asked Gemini to do it just now. Once I explained it in the format it wanted: what the source would be, what I wanted filtered and the language I planned to use it with it spat out a perfect expression without me needing to even use my brain. Technology is wonderful.
I’m sure LLMs can get it right, but if I was going to use a tool for something like that, I’d want one that was more deterministic like the linked tool claims to be.
Silly millennial, even Boomers were using regexen in the 70s, and they were commonplace by the time GenX nerds started playing with them in the 80s and 90s. Your elders also know that regexen are fun but extremely dangerous, and should only be used in cases where they won’t make things much worse.
Understand and operate any arbitrary interface without having to have it explained to me by rote
Omg, this all the way. I’m in a class for learning AWS stuff and its crazy the amount of people who suddenly can’t do anything when one button is on a different screen than the instructions told them it was. Like come on, use some basic thinking skills.
Another infuriating situation was having to do a class on Microsoft Office. It was infuriating because it was incredibly basic stuff. I’ve never used Outlook before, but I completed each task they asked of me in like 5 seconds because I have a basic understanding of how software works.
… modern … Object oriented
wat?
Bro that shits like 30 years old and most langs released after lets say 2010 have put that stuff in the backseat for backwards compatibility. Anyway I get your point
operate any arbitrary interface
Dont believe it. Behold the shittyness of modern UI
I bow down to thee. Please don’t smite me o’ holy one.
Write machine code? For what kind of processor?
That is one ability that doesn’t really belong. That’s much more of a Boomer thing. Not all boomers, obviously, but the ones who were computer experts were the ones who had to learn machine code. By the time even Gen X came along, assembler and C were already much more common.
Yeah but can you rotate a pdf?
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Remember a fairly broad swath of special character altcodes
I use the compose key. When you message with me, you are sure to receive proper dashes and real ellipsis.
Well, unless I happen to be using my phone or another computer at the time.
Hold on — why can’t you do proper ellipses and dashes on your phone? I don’t understand…
This message brought to you by Android.
Well there is no em dash or en dash key on the mobile keyboard. And there isn’t a … key either.
I typed my comment above on my mobile keyboard. I’m just using the standard Google keyboard on my Pixel, nothing fancy. Em and en dash are available by holding on the hyphen, and the ellipsis is available by holding on the period (annoyingly, only when on the numbers/symbols page).
standard Google keyboard on my Pixel, nothing fancy
The issue is that I am using something fancy.
Bobby no one’s paying you for this shit, go show Billy how to sum numbers in Excel.
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Hahaha its funny each time that happens.
My uncle is GenX and way smarter than my millennial ass. They paved the way for child free poppin off and being tech savvy with a normal tech free upbringing.
Anecdotal I know. But always funny how self centered us millenials can be thinking were the last normal generation.
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My copy was on a casette
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Yup the PET. I had a copy if the game I got off a friend which was weird as I didnt have a PET though my 1st grade classroom did.
That’s a great way to describe our larger cohort! I’m going to use that. I’ve got so many friends across the Gen-X to Millenial range that all feel like members of the same generation.
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For once they didn’t forget gen X-- I think OP is about xennials
I heard millennials can’t even grow a proper long beard
Yea but our mustache game is unmatched by anyone pre-1920’s.
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Please don’t attack like this… Ma kokoro, ma sole.
Probably. But if I’m being generous, we’re really only talking about younger X and older millennials.
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Who?
Or those of us from Gen Z that where born just at the cutoff and got tech acces at a way to young age.
*were *access *too
Yup, you’re a Zoomer alright.
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The generation that made most of the websites and software associated with the internet?
The generation that grew up with ZX Spectrum, C64, Amiga etc knows how to use computers.
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Some can’t. Computers weren’t commonplace until many GenXers were in their 20s, so some never learned. Those that did learn often learned the deep magic.
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Gen X could write a program that’ll make a floppy drive’s loading noises play the Imperial March.
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in today’s edition of “why are the kids I raised so damn incompetent?”
i long for a day where people understand that it’s not the ipad kid’s fault they were given a tablet at age 2
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That’s… part of it, but part of it is just ease of use. In growing up, I had to figure out issues with my computer,and getting games etc working took some work to do. I build a gaming PC for my nephew(under 10, but games a lot mobile and with consoles) and he played a few games on it, but then my sister (a gamer herself) said he couldn’t really get used to keyboard over controller (at which point I reminded her she could just get him a PC controller or use one of the console ones that also work on PC).
He just seems to prefer to use things that are already intuitive, and since my childhood things have gotten much better in that regard for consoles and mobile stuff. You can definitely do it on PC as well, but it often means more accessories, sometimes figuring out issues . I got another sister of mine a controller for pc and it took a bit of effort getting it properly synced for the game she wanted to play. It would show up properly in the OS, but then the game he issues, so we had to switch through modes and such, and sometimes even though one mode may work an update or something may break it.
I like using controllers for some games, and WASD for others, but even though IT is my job and I’m good at fixing things, some games have weird issues with some controllers, especially if they have mode options. All that extra fixing and finding the right settings is just frustrating for some, and with easy to use alternatives they may not bother to learn. I had no choice, just SNES and pc while growing up.
No one taught me how to use a computer, I figured it out as I went. I had to tell my 25 year old brother that theres more than one USB port on the back of his computer because he only saw the one in the front and asked me where he plugs in the keyboard and mouse.
Part of the issue for a lot of the older and younger crowd is “Well, it’s not immediately obvious, so therefore its impossible and now I’m mad at you for it.”
The amount of my students that wrote the whole email in the subject line is crazy. At first I thought it was a mistake or something. But there are sooo many…
They also don’t know what a file browser/explorer is. As soon as the download notification is gone, the file doesn’t exist anymore.
Giving files proper names? Unheard of!
So many Boomers I know do the subject line thing, I had no idea it was a Zoomer thing too. Oh no…
I often leave the subject line blank, is that better or worse?
About the same level… Put a subject people can search for.
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Yes, officer, this one right here
IMO, that’s absolutely not as bad.
Worse imo, you won’t even be able to tell what the email is about at a glance
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Giving files proper names? Unheard of!
What kinda monster manages to live like this??? I say hushedly deleting flsjfjsjfksj.pdf
Asdf.txt, asdf2.txt, asdf.m3u, asdf.odf…
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As soon as the download notification is gone, the file doesn’t exist anymore.
That seems to be how Android literally works though.
If you get an actual file explorer it’s fine. I’m using a fossilized asus one because I got used to it years ago.
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There are two generations that can do this task X and millennials.
Forgot the forgotten again
Are they the same generation whose parents said “they’re really good with computers …they go on the iPad all the time”?
WhAt’S a CoMpUtEr?
Thanks for reminding me, now I’m angry.
Glad I could brighten up your day!
If only we knew at the time how prophetic that damn commercial would be…
An IPad is a computer with a touchscreen interface instead of mouse and keyboard
We got a new kid around 19 working at our office for processing data and I hate how true this is. The amount of times I’ve had to say “No, you have to double click to open folders” is entirely too many. Either that or “You have to actually right click on the icon you want to copy you can’t just click anywhere on the screen.”
Fuck me I’m not ready for that. You expect it from the old people but I might have to leave the room if a young person asked me something like that.
I teach undergrads, and every year basic computer skills get worse and worse. I guess it’s not entirely their fault, but things like just asking them to save a file to their computer is insanely difficult. Lots of universities are starting to get task forces to figure out how to teach (or where to teach rather) basic digital skills, it it’s all going to hit the workforce really soon en masse.
Let it all implode. I’m sure the companies will thrive with this reality with the bonus of AI slop on top that all these people will be using and putting in all system across our society.
In high school I had to teach a kid how a mouse worked.
I mean, I know millennials who don’t own a computer. Just phones. They got young kids. Not sure if those are alpha at this point or whatever, but how are they supposed to learn it if they got nowhere to practice?
Quite a few working class kids and teens grow up like this.
You know, I can forgive tech illiteracy. I don’t like it, but I can forgive it. What I can’t forgive is a basic inability to retain new information.
You gotta teach someone to double click on something to open it? Fine. But you should only have to do that once.
The amount of times I’ve had to say “No, you have to double click to open folders”
That’s a real problem when you’re used to Kde and have to use a windows machine.
(Why is this damn thing so slow ? Oooh, right, double click)
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I think I tried it years ago. But it didn’t really work with the windows ui for some reason. Nowadays I don’t use it often enough to bother personalising it.
I use KDE Neon and have used Kubuntu before. Double click to open a folder is the default, same as Windows.
It is in the latest versions but it’s very recent. The default has always been single click. They changed it because of windows users.
We are getting this teached in 6th grade what country is this from?
You get one guess.
US?
That’s a BINGO!
(I’m old enough to have received a decent education here and capable of observing the noticeable decline over the past ~30 years)
It only relatively recently occurred to me that the vast majority of people use the Internet either solely or mostly with a mobile phone. It blew my mind since I grew up with PCs and modems and the Internet is so much better on a large screen that’s not half full of ads.
Me: Behold!
*quickly presses Control+V
Classmate: Woah! How did you do that??!!!
True story but as a millennial teaching another millennial in college.
this is less a problem of ‘people are stupid’ and more ‘educational institutions have been dismantled over the last several decades and large numbers of people are pushed through school despite being functionally illiterate, if they graduate at all’
You can rotate a PDF in your mind. It’s free entertainment and nobody can stop you
OK so I have a pet theory about this. I grew up in a period when computing involved friction and lack of ready resources to ease that friction. Solving problems involved actual research, in the research process more and more details of how computers operate were exposed to me. I had the time and focus to learn and the motivation to stick at it when it was difficult. I then did something horrible to almost everyone who asked me for help, I removed that friction.
With the noblest of intentions I prevented everyone around me from experiencing that friction, I made it easy. Consequently I caused those people around me to miss out on those basics I struggled with. I uncovered the arcane lore of endianess so everyone around me who wasn’t already an adept would be spared. I plumbed the mysteries of the parallel port so that others could use a printer with only mild mystical invocations. I immersed myself in SCSI termination so that my friends and family might partake of IDE (retroactively named PATA) in peace.
I came from an era of computing where these things mattered (at least to some degree) and they moulded me and shaped how I use a computer to this day. My brothers will always be dependent on myself and my ilk to act as guides and so much of what I know is functionally useless today so a neophyte could not follow the twisted path I did.
I was blessed as well to come of age in a time when a computer was a comprehensible assemblage of parts, when I could identify at an IC level the components of it. I feel like that is what is missing in the modern incarnation of technology. I also worry this is where we stagnate, the field is too large for anyone to compass it entirely and we splinter in to specialisations.
However this is also a sign that technology has come of age. I am certain, absolutely positive, that if I was to pick an arbitary topic, say music, I would seem as illiterate and helpless as the Zoomers we are bemoaning as mere consumers of Tech. I can enjoy a piece of music, I can even take a rough stab at the rusiments of how it is made. Ask me to explain the nomenclature of a time signature on sheet music and I will look the dunce before I finish the first sentence.
So maybe we should give them a break and realise that for a lot of them, It… Just… Isn’t… Important…
They will learn this stuff if and when they need to. Otherwise “magic box does things when I perform this ritual” is enough for them to function in their world, the same as “Car starts when I turn this key” is enough for me to function in mine.
Holy crap, I wrote this on my phone, what is wrong with me?
My daughter (5) uses WASD proficiently, so I have hope.
Absolutely. At 10yo I’ve tried my best to teach my kid video editing and basic computer use. A bit ago I made her network two computers using chatGPT as a guide. So freaking proud of her.
Thinking of forcing her to do something new. Does Roblox run on Linux?
Can I recommend Minecraft over Roblox?
Minecraft isn’t as popular, but I was able to get my 8 year old to make TNT arrows and he thought it was a blast. (Hehehehe)
And Minecraft Java definitely works on Linux
Edit: My son claims Roblox is more popular. But that could be because I banned it at home.
Minecraft is a blast! You can buy it and then throw the awful Microsoft launcher in the trash. There areuch better bootleg launchers (i.e. don’t force login). Or just get the bootleg launcher without buying the game.
I have bought the game five times on different platforms by now. I’m not buying it anymore.
My kids also had a lot of fun choosing and figuring out the plethora of mods available.
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I literally paid 20€ for 2000h of fun (1c per hour), I’d say that’s warranted
Hearing the best selling video game ever isnt as popular as roblox is weird
Yeah, honestly, I don’t know if it is, or he just talks about it like it is because I won’t let him play it.
Minecraft is way more fun IMO anyway
Minecraft is less popular than Roblox nowadays???
I’m not that old and when I was in school everyone was playing Minecraft (+ later when it released many played Fortnite) and noone Roblox.
He’s in elementary school so it’s impossible to actually know.
Definitely, and modded Minecraft has taken a great game and made it so much better. The “Create” mod alone has made MC so much more than what Mojang intended.
And the launchers available for Linux let you use modpacks from every source including FTB, letting you forgo a launcher full of ads.
with some hassle bedrock can also work iirc. might be the android version though.
That said, I forget which one is which and which was the renaming, but luanti/minetest/minecraftia/mineclone. One is a free open source engine, two are different takes on minecraft clones that are mods for the base engine. Missing features can be covered via addititonal more specific mods.
The main benefit is that its actually free with no microtransactions that can make you broke if your kids figure out how to use your credit card. It also performs way better than both minecraft versions on even older hardware. If the kids can learn free art software like krita or gimp among others, they can make their own skins instead of buying them for minecraft. Pixel art is pretty easy to copy too.
roblax is extremely absolutely vile, manipulative, and not a safe place for anyone let alone children. it’s genuinely worse than 4chan for some time now.
tell me how is brickhill supposed to compete when roblox isn’t down?
What makes you say this? The parental controls are pretty good. Just don’t give access to age range stuff that you feel the kid isn’t ready for. And turn off the chat. The only thing that bothers me is some of the annoying sounds some of the experiences use.
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I’ve been told some pretty fucked up shit slips through the cracks like ‘holocaust simulator’ or ‘beating pregnant women’ or assorted bizarre block people sex dungeon stuff, then the literal real money gambling paired with fomo, child labour exploitation through game development hopes and dreams combined with extremely exploitative advertisement options.
Maybe parents from exactly the correct generation can handle the parental controls but the parents I know IRL gave their kids free reign and the ones that cut it off after seeing soulless violent content had a hard time with the kids being straight up addicted. Kid’s shouldn’t even be on online stuff since the average parent has no idea how to use anything other than an iphone and even that they barely know shit.
Back in my day we played reader rabbit and math blaster off of five and a quarter floppies
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Roblox? sober just began working again.
I made her network two computers
How did she do it? Just plug a crossover cable into both of them?
