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Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
Getting banned from Blahaj.Zone is easy. Just disagree with the admin on anything.
If by disagree you mean intentionally misgender people then yes
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Ada, drag is sorry for sharing the screenshots. Drag didn’t think they were anything serious. Drag won’t share any screenshots without permission again.
clown down.
legit you cannot convince me this wasn’t trolling, and the fact so many people haven’t been able to tell, for so long, is deeply funny but also somewhat depressing. I blocked them almost as soon as I encountered them. It reeks of bait turned up to 11, like an edgy 16 year old just heard about the concept of making your own pronouns and went “ok how can I make this as stupid as humanly possible to fuck with people?”.
Already said it in !main@lemmy.blahaj.zone but I’ll say it again so others can see it here.
It seems drag was banned from the site for sharing people’s DMs, though I’m sure that’s not the whole story, drag has a history of being banned for way more than just the thing on the label. Looking at the comments on drag’s home instance where it hasn’t been removed, it seems drag was sharing those DMs in attempt to libel Ada for not taking the action drag wanted. That’s on top of the fact that she did not give drag permission to share them. It’s an asshole move for sure, and I have to say if I were in Ada’s shoes I’d do the same.
I believe transparency is desirable and the single party consent rule in regards to private conversations should be the primary accepted doctrine here outside of any communique that is sexual/private and includes nudes and or personal data and could constitute doxxing.
That’s your opinion, but many people do not agree with you. I myself would be pissed if you shared our DM convo without asking me first, or even letting me know you were going to. I can see why Ada would and why she did what she did, it’s disrespectful and adversarial.
Ada was also already wary of drag after the respecting pronouns rule announcement, because a number of blahaj users rightfully pointed out drag is still likely a troll. Fluff around and find out basically.
It ultimately isn’t surprising. Drag has been very sus from the beginning, drag exhibited a lot of behaviors that made me leery. Though at the time I didn’t say anything since it was only a hunch and most people were just voicing transphobic complaints about pronouns.
What made drag feel suspicious?
Either you have issues with reading comprehension or you are an alt of drag. When people say someone is being sus or has been sus they generally mean they as a person are behaving in ways that make others suspicious.
Drag didn’t know Ada didn’t message spujb. Drag was making it clear to spujb and anyone reading the thread that drag wasn’t lying. Drag is sorry to Ada and won’t do it again. Drag tried to tell her earlier today, but drag couldn’t
If they follow the rules, they are always welcome in Casual Conversation.
I do not understand the same reasons to judge them that everyone else seems to. They have never seemed antagonistic.
According to “drag,” you’ve already misgendered them four times. They’d report you for this.
They and I had a talk about that. I asked what their neo-pronouns would be if they followed the three basic courtesy rules, and they responded saying I could stick to they/them. They and anyone else are free to correct me if I relapse into he/him.
They also said that they are not a person, but instead, a “dragon rider” which would indicate one who rides dragons. So… Is a dragon’s rider a dragon that rides dragons? A race of non-human things that ride dragons? Neither of these?
Also, take a stroll through their comment history. They are very inconsistent over the months since their account was created.
It’s almost as if they were making it up as they went along.
Inconsistent with their gender/pronouns or inconsistent with who they are?
To be honest, when I first met them, my first impression was they might be otherkin, though I didn’t have those exact words to say.
Inconsistent with their trolling.
That’s really weird, because this is what Leni’s comment looks like on drag’s screen:
There are/were some instances of harassment with multiple accounts from them IIRC
How would anyone know it’s them?
Its been a while since I saw the posts, but it was not subtle at all; immediate reactionary posts from the same instance all badmouthing someone drag was arguing with, using the same phrasing and sentence structure drag uses.
These immediate reactionary posts, were they directed at various different people? Drag has been in drama and conflict with a lot of people on Lemmy. So if drag made the posts, it would make sense for them to be directed at all the people drag has had a lot of conflict with: spujb, Flying Squid, Pug Jesus…
Or, was the alt-account harassment all directed at a single user, and all at a time when that user had something to gain from playing the victim? Because if that’s the case, it seems like maybe that particular user is somehow linked to the cause of the harassment.
Why is that troll not banned from ALL of lemmy? I don’t get it.
Oh, and for the record; this post and all the comments in it including mine- are exactly why they do what they do.
They feed on the drama. Ban them, and this ends.
That’s effectively impossible as a part of the nature of the fediverse. You could try banning alts on site but it’s really not that hard to have a dozen alts waiting across host of instances.
And when those alts call themselves “drag” what do you think will happen?
Mods will ban them, they will make a new account and carry on.
Bans only work for normal people.
Correction bans only work for people who respect the paradigm of “not being allowed to sign up again when banned” and “not being allowed to lie on registration application” if it’s present on the server.
Normal people don’t get permabanned from servers left, right, and center.
Reeks of big brother, but I wonder if there’s a way to device ban.
If you could force users to use an app like Reddit does you could get device data. Though short of that not really. Browser fingerprinting and tracking cookie placement (What Reddit uses in their web session) is described that way by lay people (and people trying to fear monger or dissuade ban evasion) but Browsers like Tor or Mullvad defeat that very easily by not saving the data and randomizing the fingerprinting data.
Most Lemmy users wouldn’t use a locked down black box app similar to the Reddit app though. It would be a red flag for many of them. An instance which requires that would not be popular.
That tracks. And is a good thing actually. Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Appreciate it!
Sharing DMs is a dick move.
Strangers on the Internet don’t owe you jack just because you send them a DM.
Not exactly something that requires top secret classification, yeah?
since the text is too small to be readable, nobody can tell; but in any case, privacy matters regardless of the classification. If drag cared they could’ve asked Ada beforehand if it would be okay.
But I guess courtesy is a one-way to drag.
Drag is sorry to Ada for sharing the screenshot of her saying she’d talk to spujb. Drag won’t do it again.
Not if it is exposing admin/mod abuse.
good thing it wasn’t (source: i was the third party recipient of those shared DMs; they were fully irrelevant to admin/mod action, abusive or otherwise)
How so? On Lemmy, at least, they are absolutely not private. It is just a way for two users to communicate without cluttering up a thread or something. Not a way to communicate in secret.
EDIT: Oh, I missed the joke. DM = Dick Move. Woosh
It’s private in the sense that the DMs were made between 2 people. They are public in the sense that the admins of the instance(s) can read the DMs. Just like admins of any server can read anything that’s not encrypted at source.
so… only admins can read the mail but the counterparty can’t disclose their own mail?
wtf sort of logic does this rely on
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Almost everything you said isn’t true. Point to the rule that says someone can’t disclose a DM they were part of? Unethical? Sure.
And I mean everyone can disclose anything in their posession.
It’s just not allowed
Make up your mind.
Also Drag is a troll. Has suggested that several people commit suicide. Drag doesn’t get a pass. Drag is a piece of shit. Don’t be Drag.
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It depends on the state. My state is a one party state, meaning any person that is party to a private conversation can legally reveal everything in it to the public.
Nah. It doesn’t fucking matter.
We have dms?
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DragonRider’s pronouns are “Drag” not “they”, just because someone is a dick doesn’t mean you don’t respect pronouns. Gender isn’t a reward for good behavior.
Dragonfucker isn’t a gender
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Absolute bullshit. I called drag out and ONLY drag. I made no mention of neopronouns or even said anything remotely dismissive of pronouns as I am a huge supporter of all of it.
Yet I was banned because I called drag a shit tier troll that was making a mockery of the trans community.
That last part is transphobic. No trans person represents the trans community and setting higher standards for trans people than cis people is transphobic. You can call them out for being a troll, but using someone’s gender identity in an insult is always transphobic.
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Community banned as I recall. And even removing the comments because I called them a troll and accused them of mocking the trans community was bullshit in light of the recent acknowledgment that they are- in fact, a troll.
They went to where they knew they could take advantage of the rules that protect the trans community- and then weaponized it to create drama and get shit removed.
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I like your explanation and also would say that Drag did a great job of forcing me to consider this section of grammar. I very much dislike “individual pronouns”, similar to the other commenter, but specifically because they cause unnecessary frustration and discord in my already discordant neurodivergent brain (the point of pronouns is that there are ideas and contexts that absolutely require generic forms of nouns - breaking that section of language is very frustrating, especially as one who tries to show everyone the respect that any person deserves). However, like the other commenter, I do not see any way to engage conversationally and respectfully, without using them when requested.
So, even though it is internally aggravating, if I choose to engage, showing the basic decency of at least making a best effort of addressing one how they request is the least one can do, supposing that the individual is not specifically requesting to be addressed in a manner to elevate themselves over others (whether in good or bad faith, ex. “King”, “Master”, etc - save that for scenes, if that’s your kind of thing).
Now, neopronouns and the like, I’m all about those because they don’t break my brain and, as a bonus, many of them are novel to me.
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Or, do what my instance did, and ban him for being a transphobic troll that harasses people, which is the only sensible action.
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Blahaj said you have to respect everyone’s pronouns, even if you think they are trolling, because it’s not up for debate and you don’t get to set conditions before you start calling someone by the right appelations. Fair enough.
A user figured out that meant they could identify as a dragon, tell everyone their pronouns were “drag,” and get people banned from blahaj for not saying “drag,” or trying to tell this person that drag weren’t actually a dragon. Blahaj, in the mode of overly well-intentioned leftists throughout all history, bought into it hard and obediently virtue-signaled by banning anyone who pointed out that drag was taking the piss. Presumably, drag laughed dragself out of dragr chair every time it happened. Drag also tended to display other fun behavior like encouraging other users to commit suicide, if I remember right.
Apparently, blahaj has finally figured it out. I eagerly await whatever overcorrection or other type of continuingly-counterproductive drama is going to ensue now. Presumably, some new user will emerge with some other type of bizarre edge case in the “official correct morality” that everyone is required to agree on, to instigate everyone to get into slap fights over.
You clearly have a bone to pick, but it should be noted that Drag was a well-known user long before the post clarifying Blahaj’s stance on neopronouns was posted, at least by a couple of months.
You are out of touch with reality.
Drag was a well-known user
Troll. The word is troll, not user. Drag has never been here in good faith, and good fucking riddance. They make the trans community look lesser for their association
Yeah it was kind of obvious it was the attack helicopter meme from the start. The whole thing was a bit silly in the sense that pronouns which don’t reflect human reality aren’t really any kind of moral hazard for ones that do imo.
At the same time, I kind of feel like gate keeping pronouns actually gives the trolls power in a way. Imagine someone at the office does this and then everyone actually calls them a Christmas tree or whatever. The lack of concern about this new nickname in the broader population would definitely piss them off, since they are the one who cares about that stuff.
I think, also, what gives the trolls power is everyone getting upset about it. If it was 50% of the office saying “Is ChristmasTreeSelf coming to the party?” and 50% saying “Bro I’m not saying that it is stupid”, but neither one really treating it as any different than any other Tuesday, then it’s fine. But because people have this deeply held impassion about the whole issue (which exists for a valid reason of course), it means they feel like they need to set these super-rigid rules about what is “allowed” and “not allowed” out of those outcomes, and then other people get upset about having things they are thinking inside their head that they will get banned if they say out loud, and it just becomes a situation of upset-ness instead of anything like positive communication between people. And then there are people who like to be performatively upset because someone violated the rules and now they’re all excited to correct them, which just compounds the problem which was already an upset situation.
It is okay if people think different from you. I feel like a lot of modern society involves people needing the debate to continue until their own particular viewpoint is “proven right” and becomes the law of the land, so they won’t have to deal with any enemy viewpoints anywhere within the kingdom without someone coming in to correct them, forcibly if necessary, which isn’t really how it works.
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Just one thing, “drag” apparently isn’t even short for “Dragon”, but “Dragon fucker”.
See also Grail, who insisted their pronouns must be capitalized.
Respecting people’s gender is not carte blanche to make up rules. Like, I can’t say my pronouns have italicized vowels during local business hours, and must use thee / thou / thine if you’re disagreeing with me. That’s simply not what pronouns are for. It’s not why they matter.
Taking a ‘shut up and do it anyway’ approach to moderation is simpler, and perhaps understandable. But you have to acknowledge that’s what you’re doing. When you genuinely believe there is no limit, that gender is both super fucking important and so meaningless that it can be anything, people are going to try politely talking you through some immediately obvious problems.
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appreciate your consistent and calm attitude to such a frustrating and consistent onslaught of criticism ada, as always <3
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People weren’t banned for criticizing them, they were banned for encouraging others to misgender people if they don’t like them. I don’t think anyone was banned for not using “personal” neo pronouns.
And drag was banned from BZ for telling people to KYS, then they went and made a new account on a different instance and have continued pissing people off, now the new acount is being banned from stuff because they’ve continued the kind of behavior that got them banned in the first place.
they were banned for encouraging others to misgender people if they don’t like them
(My God what the fuck am I thinking wading into this.)
“Dragon” isn’t a gender. Refusing to identify someone as the gender they identified with, because you thought they were trolling, is fucked up yes. That’s why blahaj made the rule, and it’s a good rule. Refusing to identify someone as a dragon because you think they’re trolling is A-ok. Deliberately conflating those two issues, so that you pretend someone is “misgendering” if they exercise a small amount of common sense and refuse to go along with someone being a dragon, is I think exactly the trick this particular troll was trying to play, and it worked like fireworks. I think in terms of creating conflict between two reasonable points of view on this topic that would get people on both sides all amped up about it, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
Its not even “Dragon”. Its “Dragon Fucker”.I made an error. It’s short for “Dragon Rider”.
Drag’s gender isn’t dragon fucker. That’s drag’s sexuality. Drag’s gender is dragon rider. One is about who drag is, one is about who drag likes to fuck.
At the same time, the thing is so ridiculous that it doesn’t really interfere with any sincerely held belief, I think. The drama is what the troll wants.
This is the usual series of events for the drag drama:
Drag: does something that any Lemmy user does: Commenting, posting, etc. Something innocuous
Someone: Hey. I’m not calling you that/Why are you called that?
Drag: explains
Someone: Fucking trollDoes that really seem like someone starting fights on purpose? It’s people going out of their way to pick a fight with drag, and drag retaliating. Drag doesn’t start these things most of the time
How many alts are you gonna make, drag?
I got most if not all of my comments on that post removed because i called them a troll that made a mockery of the trans community.
And now they banned the troll.
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Finally, the anti-trans troll falls out of favor.
Careful not to mythologize the characters of people who have just hurt others.
With 100+ comments already this is probably a message delivered too late, but if you are reading this be aware that comments here that digress away from simply keeping history into ogling and ridiculing serve only to feed the needs of a user who already has alt accounts drifting in as we speak.
I’m really amazed how they don’t try very hard to conceal their alts as alts. Change what they refer to themselves as in the third person, and everything else is exactly the same. Low effort.
Drag can’t control how drag’s friends talk. If drag were writing their posts for them, drag would be a lot more careful. Unfortunately, drag doesn’t use disguised alts, and drag’s friends write their own comments themselves. And drag is friends with other queer neurodivergent people who have personalities and values similar to drag’s.
If that is actually true, then I apologise for the assumption.
If you want to get to know someone, the best way is to treat them like a person. And drag would think getting to know somebody is the best way to find out who they are; drag, or someone else. Drag doesn’t think anybody has actually tried to find the truth.
Lemmy is supicious that drag’s friends don’t use Lemmy very often, and mostly just comment whenever drag is upset. Would you want to use Lemmy if your main experience with it was your friend crying because someone misgendered them? When you think of drag’s friends as people, their actions make a lot more sense.
