since kids aren’t usually allowed to train with guns… were they all training with their parents before? or is it not that hard, so can any person with no expirience technically just pick up a gun and start shooting people?
(asking not 4 myself obvs, just out of curiosity)
Point 'n Shoot
or, in a Christian state, Spray 'n Pray
It takes a bit to initially learn how to load, chamber a round, and disable a safety. Every new gun you handle will require relearning those things for the most part. Also, the first time you handle a gun you’ll probably be a bit intimidated by the whole experience and want someone to show you. I agree most kids would have been taught by an adult if they got so far as to shoot up a school. That said, if a loaded gun is lying around the house, someone can easily pick it up and do some damage with it without any training— at least until it is time to reload.
It’s really a no brainer in how to use guns. The part that really determines how well they can use a gun is how fast they can reload like a trained marksman who spends considerable time at a shooting range. That and how well they can prevent some guns from jamming.
But taking one, knowing it is loaded and just shooting away, that’s a no brainer. Anyone can do it.
Have you fired a pistol before?
Yes. All it takes is squeezing the gun, aim and fire. Again, not hard to do. You’re not going to hit your target all the time unless you try focusing, but my point still stands.
And in the context of the question, the ‘target’ is fairly large doesn’t take that much to hit it
They’re not hard to use, they’re hard to use well. And really, not that hard. I’m a pretty good shot, and I’d say I spent much less time learning to shoot than I did, say, computer-related skills which took way more practice, and study.
It’s a blessing that most mass shooters are not skilled shooters. The shooters that are skilled tend to favour the rifle. They make each shot count, and typically only fire once. But, that’s more of an assassination. People using handguns tend to miss a lot — I think they’re really going for terror/fear and not a high casualty count.
The “problem” with being a good shooter is, you have certain safety tenets drilled into your head. Know where each shot is going to go, because you’re responsible for the bullet once it’s fired, and you can’t get it back; don’t point at anything you don’t intend to destroy/don’t have the right to destroy/don’t have the legal right to destroy; shoot to kill, never to warn or maim; don’t shoot if you can’t be sure you will hit your target; etc. Specifically because I think it begs the question, about warning shots: they’re dumb. The idea of shooting up to warn people. That bullet will eventually come down, at terminal velocity, and if it hits someone, it will do serious damage. If it hits the head just right, that warning shot absolutely can kill a bystander.
You can learn how to use almost any gun in about five minutes. Have a friend or family member that lets you take some practice shots in their backyard? Now you know enough to be dangerous.
Even without practice shots, every gun has the capacity to be dangerous no matter the extent of the users knowledge.
One might even say that a firearm becomes more dangerous in a less knowledgeable person’s hands.
Kids know computers and just like guns it is a point and click interface
since kids aren’t usually allowed to train with guns
What?
I went to a rural school, and everyone had a “hunters education” class in like 7th grade. We never touched a gun but we could legally go hunting with a gun after.
A shit ton of kids hunt, and most ranges are fine with kids if an adult is with them too.
Like, it varies state to state, but in lots of areas it’s weird for someone to graduate highschool before shooting a gun.
But besides all that, guns aren’t difficult.
so can any person with no expirience technically just pick up a gun and start shooting people?
So yeah, pretty much.
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I went to a rural school, and everyone had a “hunters education” class in like 7th grade. We never touched a gun but we could legally go hunting with a gun after.
That’s crazy. I had no idea anyone had a class like that. We’re basically training kids to be school shooters… at school?
Sounds like an elective class. My ex-wife’s niece was in an after-school shotgun club. I gather it was more target practice than hunting.
I’m of the opinion that familiarity with actually shooting is more of a deterrent to the school shooter mentality than fetishizing guns. I’m basing that mostly on the idea that these school shooters can’t seem to handle a weapon, given that kills are the goal.
Hunter’s ed is basically the opposite of what you stated. It’s not part of the state curriculum. It’s similar to drivers ed courses for people to be able to get a learners permit before they turn 18. Similarly below a certain ages, most states require completion of a hunter’s education course to be able to purchase a hunting license and legally hunt.
The courses go over topics like property rights, how to carry a weapon making sure it’s not pointing at anyone, what high vis clothing is required, always knowing what is behind an animal before even aiming, rules about how a weapon must be unloaded when in a vehicle, and they strongly urge keeping an interference lock in the action of any firearm in storage.
Hunter’s ed doesn’t teach kids how to shoot, they teach kids how to not be idiots when hunting.
The person I replied to specifically said it was part of the 7th grade curriculum. Classes like that existing is not surprising, but it being part of middle school curriculum is very surprising to me.
A large amount of Americans that grew up with firearms in the home learned to shoot at the ages of 5 to 7. The reason those ages are mentioned is because that’s the time that an average human is able to hold a pistol unattended and play with it if they don’t understand the danger. I never wanted to play with guns because I knew what they were and how they worked my entire life. Most of that training will simply be that if you find a firearm unattended, you are supposed to find an adult to attend that firearm. Explaining the dangers of firearms and that anything pointed at by a firearm will be destroyed. Explaining only goes so far. Seeing on the other hand, the power and destruction that can be wrought leaves a much more lasting impression. The main purpose of all of this is because children educated purely through media have many false ideas about firearms and weapons and damage that they can cause.
Media glorifies guns and gun use and violence. In media people get shot all the time and take no real damage for it. It is important to impress upon children that have easy access to firearms that they are tools and weapons and not toys.
Tldr Children are taught about guns for the same reason kids are taught sex education.
As they said, you really dont need to know much to operate a semi automatic weapon. Everything you need to know is public knowledge that can be found on wikipedia, youtube, etc.
You dont need to be a very good shot if you shoot at 5m distance…
I went to a rural school, and everyone had a “hunters education” class in like 7th grade.
For the non American, how old is it supposed to be, please tell me it’s the last year of high school with 18 yo, and you were in a vocational school not a generic one
Americans graduate from 12th at 17/18
So I think I’d have been 12, and it was a public generic school
And if that sounds too early, hunting season started like a week earlier than the class and another 12 year old in my class already had his license (lots did) but that kid climbed a fence with a loaded shotgun while hunting and blew off a couple of his toes.
So like, it’s hard to argue it was “too early” because the kids were already running around unsupervised with guns.
Before Columbine people would go hunting before school and if they didn’t get anything they’d come straight to school with their gun in the back window of their truck. After they just stopped leaving them clearly visible.
Even without much education, I was a geek in a rural location, one time a friend’s dad put a cigarette (half 3/4 done or so) on a fence cause we were having a competition and we hit them all. Mean the cigarette was only say 15 - 20 feet away but I I split it in half with a BB gun (yes no kick of course), probably luck but I was hitting the targets too and the dad figured no one would hit that one. It wasn’t a long range but I figure someone with access to a rifle should shoot fine enough if they practice even a bit if I can without access. I only shot a gun maybe a dozen times in total.
I’m actually for this. No, it shouldn’t be necessary, but it is and that’s that.
Taught my kids guns at 9 and 11. Took them out to our camp and shot a bunch of different .22s. Now instead of guns being these mysterious things “you should never touch”, well, they’ve touched and just aren’t really interested. LOL, that was 100% against my custody agreement, but I was terrified the kids would find someone’s gun one day and have Hollywood perceptions. Their mom didn’t say a word, which was really strange, so I believe she agrees.
One interesting thing I showed then was shooting an empty can with a .22. “See how that made a little hole of both sides? That’s what many people think guns do. But people are juicy, so it looks more like this.” They shit kittens when I shot a can full of water and it absolutely shredded. I think that was impactful. :)
I taught them never to pick up someone’s gun for the same reason even professionals won’t do so. “It’s not because I think you’re dumb kids, but you don’t know anything about that particular gun. What if there’s something wrong with it? How can you tell if it’s loaded? When you’re older, never accept a gun from a person who does not first clear it and show you the empty chamber. Even professionals do this. If they don’t practice this simple etiquette, they are not to be trusted and you need to get away, and stay away from that person.” Later overheard my son telling his big sis, in great detail and with great authority this rule.
Gonna suck when they’re teens. If they’re emotional wrecks like I was, they won’t see a gun in this house.
Glad to hear you doing this. My daughter refuses to learn, but I keep telling her it’s so when the dumb boy pulls out a gun at a party, she can ask to see it, and clear the chamber, take the clip, safe it, and hand it (minus the clip) back.
Shooting is like driving a car. A baby could do it. Few can do it safely.
Using a gun is really easy. And I suspect school showers aren’t particularly concerned about safety, so that’s not an issue for them
Not to blame video games but genuinely having never even held a real gun I could definitely work out how to operate one from the thousands of hours I have interacted with them digitally lol. They ultimately are designed ground up to be user friendly and simple. Yes I would be a terrible aim etc but still not the point, an idiot can still cause chaos.
This is the US we’re talking about, so there’s no shortage of guns or people willing to teach other people to use guns. Sure, I doubt an eight year old could rock up to the local range and lease a weapon, but… there’s always a crazy uncle. Besides that, there’s no shortage of instructional material to be found online and elsewhere. Guns are not particularly complicated devices. Fill magazine with ammunition, insert magazine, pull and release charging handle (or slide), disengage safety (if any), point and pull the trigger. It’s not particularly difficult. Hitting something is a different matter though.
I mean, I’m Danish, and guns are not exactly commonplace here, but I used to shoot pistols for sport in the indoor range beneath a local school starting when I was eleven.
Taught my kids the basics at 9 and 11. They need to understand the lethality of guns, what is safe and not safe, and maybe most importantly, how to recognize someone who is not being safe and get the hell away from them.
Plus, took the mystery out of the whole thing. Now they just don’t care much.
Frankly, had I been a parent and living in the US, I would have done the same. One can debate whether the circumstances that necessitate it are ideal, but as the matter stands it’s only sensible.
Denmark is, as you might expect, very different. Here, people can - and in the vast majority of cases, will - live their entire lives without ever encountering a real weapon. Certainly, it’s possible to own a gun, but obtaining a license / required insurance and meeting mandatory storage requirements is non-trivial, so only hunters, collectors and sports shooters ever bother. Collectors aside, the type of weapons favored here are also distinctly different. Shotguns used for hunting or skeet shooting are typically break-action side-by-side or over/under respectively, and hunting rifles are, well, hunting rifles - scoped bolt action. People don’t hunt with AR-15’s around here. As for sports shooters owning their own pistols, most use high quality .22LR Walther GSP’s and similar. I’ve seen a few people shoot the occasional 9mm/.45 ACP something or other and an infrequent revolver, but that’s very rare.
Practical personal defense weapons are pretty much non-existent.
Thank you for your take! American gun nuts tend to think Europeans can’t own a weapon, at all. Funny enough, what you’ve described is most of my gun collection. A dozen shotguns, mostly single shots and vintage/antiques. Loads of .22s, but my wife’s Walther .22 is a total POS! How funny is that? And yes, American hunting rifles are typically bolt-action. I think there are a couple of states where it’s illegal to hunt with an AR platform? The rounds are too wimpy for clean kills. (That’s a joke meme.)
YouTube videos?
The Internet
They just aren’t that hard to use.
As Thelma says, “can’t be that hard, idiots use them all of the time”.
It takes real, practiced skill and/or quality equipment to hit a bullseye at long range, or to kill an armed opponent at short range quickly and cleanly enough to not give them the chance to shoot you back. It takes no skill to hit an undefended, person-sized object at <10 meters, the distances involved in most indoor locations.
