Ah, the classic “CLI commands are universal” nonsense. Isn’t even true with poweruser distros (look at Alpine or Nix), but neither with common ones.
But I’m sure reinstalling grub on a systemd-boot distro can’t be that bad, right? Here, quickly install something to fix that. Oh, your distro doesn’t apt but pacman/dnf/zypper/whatever? Too bad, don’t know those. Wait, why is that config file missing? Oh, your distro saves it somewhere else, sure hope you didn’t copy some script from the internet that now failed halfway through!
Surely after copy-pasting all those commands the other person has learned something to help themselves next time, other than that they’re utterly lost on Linux without the help of others. This will definitely make people use Linux instead of going back to the exploitative OS they know where they at least feel comfortable enough to know it won’t fail on them.
Lol. Navigating through menu-in-popup-in-window-in-tab-in-popup or adding/changing registry keys you understand nothing about is surely superior, right?
Copy-pasting commands from search results instead of learning how the applications installed on their machine work. It’s a lot deeper than skill issue…
You guys seem so utterly disconnected from the common user’s perspective it’s not even funny anymore.
Expecting everyone to learn all those CLI tools and system components they may encounter… I hope you guys are also mechatronics engineers if you drive cars, botanists if you have a garden and at least intermediate chefs if you own more than the most basic kitchen.
Please go out and talk with some people who’re NOT into tech about this stuff, it’s a sobering experience.
Dude the only people expecting shit are the ones who get mad when they migrate to Linux and won’t just learn a few simple tools to make their life easier.
Your package manager commands and options and some basic tools to troubleshoot local networking are really not that fucking hard.
Your package manager commands and options and some basic tools to troubleshoot local networking are really not that fucking hard.
Who are you trying to fool, yourself or others? Setting up networking in the CLI isn’t even remotely as simple / straightforward as you make it seem for the common user. Package manager commands are reasonable, however also by far less enticing to most people than a graphical software manager that shows all information at a glance. Especially if you look for something for a certain purpose instead of a specific name.
It may seem hard at first, it’s just that people are scared of the terminal. It’s not as if widely used programs with fancy UIs aren’t also complex.
I’m understanding of people who are just using their computer for web browsing and email, but I’m directing ire towards Windows power users who just expect certain tool sets to materialize for them.
Well, I’m arguing for the common non-IT people. It’s also more often than not less about complexity, but intuitiveness paired with a lack of knowledge (which is okay, as long as it’s well designed it’s okay not to know how a clutch actually works but still wanting or needing to drive a car).
For power users the whole discussion obviously shifts as it’s reasonable to expect them having both the interest and time to learn stuff.
What a fucking leap. CLI does not equal complexity.
If you can write and read, you can use a CLI. Can you read and write? Great, you can learn CLI cmds.
People don’t want to use CLIs because unless you’ve been using computers before windows 95, chances are that all your life you’ve been using a GUI, and humans in general don’t like changes.
Going from Windows to any Linux distro is a big enough leap, and adding a new way to interact with your tool on top of that is too much at once for the vast majority of people.
With that said, a lot of Windows issues require you to use the CLI and mess with regedit to fix them. How is that any different than asking people to run a diagnostic command to troubleshoot their PC?
You can use a Linux distro through a GUI pretty much 99.9% of the time, just like Windows. The only difference is that on Linux, the CLI is much more powerful than the GUI, so the majority of users will use the CLI to troubleshoot.
You don’t need to be into tech stuff. You can do everything in CLI that you can do in GUI (but not necessarily vice-versa). Just because you are better with visual shit doesn’t mean that either approach is “right” or “wrong.”
I’m not in tech at all, I’ve just learned to use my operating system over time. It’s really not that hard & now I prefer command line sometimes b/c it’s just faster.
What’s really weird is your complete aversion to learning a new utility & your bizarre shaming of people for being knowledgeable about their tools.
If I can’t be expected to remember sudo dnf update -y why would I be able to remember a whole ass recipe, or how to care for plants, or how to change my oil? There’s no GUI to tell me how much nitrogen my soil needs, I can’t be expected to learn anything!
Because a GUI conveys meaning, because humans are intrinsically better at memorizing shapes and location than some random abstract characters that do not mean anything to then unless you use them all the time. Because a System Settings panel with submenus and descriptions on their checkboxes and sliders is the manual AND the option simultaneously, small “?” with hover-over information boxes make it optimal. A GUI can go so far to turn completely red to signal dangerous settings, the CLI will happily oblige in whatever stupid command you enter. Hell, even god damn APT had NO option to warn users that they’re about to uninstall core system components until a big Youtuber like LTT had his distro blow up in his face. And STILL there were those people who tirelessly argued against a god damn warning… and colored text.
GUI is by design better at guardrailing, meanwhile in the CLI a single wrong command with sudo in front can destroy your entire OS.
I can’t fathom how this isn’t painfully obvious to anyone who thinks about this for even a moment…
And yet you expect me to be able to figure out paella or my soil PH without a GUI? I’m expected to learn what color means what on these test strips and measure ingredients with different sized spoons? This is madness!
You realize most people that dabble at gardening do not in fact know anything about that right?
Most people that dabble in gardening will kill a lot of plants, and when they do try to understand why, they’re not going to pick up a book on gardening to understand how plants work. They will search on the internet why their plant died and try random suggestions (the equivalent of running random commands on Linux) until something works, or failing that, they will more likely move to a hardier plant like a cactus (the equivalent of moving to Windows).
Sure it’s not as beautiful and is prickly, but at least it doesn’t just die.
if you’re using systemd, 90% of your system maintenance and boot handling is going to be running through systemd, so it’s likely to be pretty syntactically similar.
other than that they’re utterly lost on Linux without the help of others. This will definitely make people use Linux instead of going back to the exploitative OS they know where they at least feel comfortable enough to know it won’t fail on them.
yknow, unless they do actual debug. Everytime i’ve seen someone go over an issue they have with linux, via someone else, it follow the process of debug, troubleshoot, solve. Where you must necessarily learn something. Maybe not as much as when you figure it out yourself, but group troubleshooting is often more efficient.
Not to mention all of the resources and information out there to actually figure out what’s happening is so much more accessible.
The command line allows people to help troubleshoot problems across Linux dostros without everyone’s desktop having to look exactly the same.
Stop whining, you ninnies, it’s a good thing!
Ah, the classic “CLI commands are universal” nonsense. Isn’t even true with poweruser distros (look at Alpine or Nix), but neither with common ones. But I’m sure reinstalling grub on a systemd-boot distro can’t be that bad, right? Here, quickly install something to fix that. Oh, your distro doesn’t apt but pacman/dnf/zypper/whatever? Too bad, don’t know those. Wait, why is that config file missing? Oh, your distro saves it somewhere else, sure hope you didn’t copy some script from the internet that now failed halfway through!
Surely after copy-pasting all those commands the other person has learned something to help themselves next time, other than that they’re utterly lost on Linux without the help of others. This will definitely make people use Linux instead of going back to the exploitative OS they know where they at least feel comfortable enough to know it won’t fail on them.
Lol. Navigating through menu-in-popup-in-window-in-tab-in-popup or adding/changing registry keys you understand nothing about is surely superior, right?
I have fixed loads & loads of issues via cli. I don’t even know what the hell you’re on about. Sounds like a skill issue, tbh.
Copy-pasting commands from search results instead of learning how the applications installed on their machine work. It’s a lot deeper than skill issue…
You guys seem so utterly disconnected from the common user’s perspective it’s not even funny anymore. Expecting everyone to learn all those CLI tools and system components they may encounter… I hope you guys are also mechatronics engineers if you drive cars, botanists if you have a garden and at least intermediate chefs if you own more than the most basic kitchen.
Please go out and talk with some people who’re NOT into tech about this stuff, it’s a sobering experience.
Dude the only people expecting shit are the ones who get mad when they migrate to Linux and won’t just learn a few simple tools to make their life easier.
Your package manager commands and options and some basic tools to troubleshoot local networking are really not that fucking hard.
Who are you trying to fool, yourself or others? Setting up networking in the CLI isn’t even remotely as simple / straightforward as you make it seem for the common user. Package manager commands are reasonable, however also by far less enticing to most people than a graphical software manager that shows all information at a glance. Especially if you look for something for a certain purpose instead of a specific name.
It may seem hard at first, it’s just that people are scared of the terminal. It’s not as if widely used programs with fancy UIs aren’t also complex.
I’m understanding of people who are just using their computer for web browsing and email, but I’m directing ire towards Windows power users who just expect certain tool sets to materialize for them.
Well, I’m arguing for the common non-IT people. It’s also more often than not less about complexity, but intuitiveness paired with a lack of knowledge (which is okay, as long as it’s well designed it’s okay not to know how a clutch actually works but still wanting or needing to drive a car).
For power users the whole discussion obviously shifts as it’s reasonable to expect them having both the interest and time to learn stuff.
What a fucking leap. CLI does not equal complexity.
If you can write and read, you can use a CLI. Can you read and write? Great, you can learn CLI cmds.
People don’t want to use CLIs because unless you’ve been using computers before windows 95, chances are that all your life you’ve been using a GUI, and humans in general don’t like changes.
Going from Windows to any Linux distro is a big enough leap, and adding a new way to interact with your tool on top of that is too much at once for the vast majority of people.
With that said, a lot of Windows issues require you to use the CLI and mess with regedit to fix them. How is that any different than asking people to run a diagnostic command to troubleshoot their PC?
You can use a Linux distro through a GUI pretty much 99.9% of the time, just like Windows. The only difference is that on Linux, the CLI is much more powerful than the GUI, so the majority of users will use the CLI to troubleshoot.
You don’t need to be into tech stuff. You can do everything in CLI that you can do in GUI (but not necessarily vice-versa). Just because you are better with visual shit doesn’t mean that either approach is “right” or “wrong.”
I’m not in tech at all, I’ve just learned to use my operating system over time. It’s really not that hard & now I prefer command line sometimes b/c it’s just faster.
What’s really weird is your complete aversion to learning a new utility & your bizarre shaming of people for being knowledgeable about their tools.
If I can’t be expected to remember
sudo dnf update -ywhy would I be able to remember a whole ass recipe, or how to care for plants, or how to change my oil? There’s no GUI to tell me how much nitrogen my soil needs, I can’t be expected to learn anything!Because a GUI conveys meaning, because humans are intrinsically better at memorizing shapes and location than some random abstract characters that do not mean anything to then unless you use them all the time. Because a System Settings panel with submenus and descriptions on their checkboxes and sliders is the manual AND the option simultaneously, small “?” with hover-over information boxes make it optimal. A GUI can go so far to turn completely red to signal dangerous settings, the CLI will happily oblige in whatever stupid command you enter. Hell, even god damn APT had NO option to warn users that they’re about to uninstall core system components until a big Youtuber like LTT had his distro blow up in his face. And STILL there were those people who tirelessly argued against a god damn warning… and colored text.
GUI is by design better at guardrailing, meanwhile in the CLI a single wrong command with sudo in front can destroy your entire OS.
I can’t fathom how this isn’t painfully obvious to anyone who thinks about this for even a moment…
And yet you expect me to be able to figure out paella or my soil PH without a GUI? I’m expected to learn what color means what on these test strips and measure ingredients with different sized spoons? This is madness!
You realize most people that dabble at gardening do not in fact know anything about that right?
Most people that dabble in gardening will kill a lot of plants, and when they do try to understand why, they’re not going to pick up a book on gardening to understand how plants work. They will search on the internet why their plant died and try random suggestions (the equivalent of running random commands on Linux) until something works, or failing that, they will more likely move to a hardier plant like a cactus (the equivalent of moving to Windows).
Sure it’s not as beautiful and is prickly, but at least it doesn’t just die.
I haven’t seen anyone complain about that, complaining about freedom is a red-flag
if you’re using systemd, 90% of your system maintenance and boot handling is going to be running through systemd, so it’s likely to be pretty syntactically similar.
yknow, unless they do actual debug. Everytime i’ve seen someone go over an issue they have with linux, via someone else, it follow the process of debug, troubleshoot, solve. Where you must necessarily learn something. Maybe not as much as when you figure it out yourself, but group troubleshooting is often more efficient.
Not to mention all of the resources and information out there to actually figure out what’s happening is so much more accessible.