I have a 16-year-old son. I’m in my early 30s (had him very young) and a professional footballer. My son also dreams of becoming a successful footballer (he’s been playing since he was 6), but he’s just… not great. He’s good, but not great - and in this extremely competitive industry you need to be at least great in order to even stand a chance. So I told him, as someone who’s been doing this for a very, very long time & is active in this sphere, that he should find another, more attainable dream. He took it as me not believing in him, but I’m just objective and realistic.
When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams don’t expect them to thank or forgive you.
don’t expect them to thank or forgive you.
Should already be used to that. aka, being a parent. Some lessons have to be learned first-hand. Id still advocate for supporting their dream. My approach is generally to explain why I disagree and then support them while they find out the same thing for themselves and try not to say “I told you so.” Sometimes theyll surprise me.
The best ever second generation footballer out of Lemmy.
Probably not the same kind of footballer, but this also seems relevant…
By July
You’d made a whole bunch of brand new friends
People you used to look down on
And you’d figured out a way to make real money
Giving ends to your friends and it felt stupendous
Chrome spokes on your Japanese bikeBut selling acid was a bad idea…
Sometimes when people lose their dreams, they replace them with more unhealthy dreams…
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You should have known that there was nothing to gain by telling him what you did. Kids that age are smart enough to realize that if they aren’t being selected to the local all-star team, it’s because they’re not an all-star. If they go to football camp and they aren’t one of the best people at the camp, they’ll realize that they’re not very likely to go pro. But you decided to make it your business at a time when you didn’t need to, and that makes you a jerk.
You said that you’re just being objective and realistic, right, but you decided to tell your son your opinion, and not someone else. If you were actually trying to be objective, you would have told everyone on the team what you thought about their potential. Of course that would be really rude, which is the point.
What you could have done is what many other people have mentioned in the comments. Something about how there’s no guarantee that anyone can make it pro, or how long they’ll last if they do, because random injuries can end your career, and the median length of a professional footballer isn’t very long anyway, so there’s still the rest of life to live.
When you punish a person for dreaming his dream, don’t expect him to thank our forgive you.
He’s right, you don’t believe in him, and if he’s not great at football even though he’s living with a pro, that shows me how little you value him. He could be great but what are you doing to help him get there besides crushing his dreams?
If you want to salvage this relationship at all you need to apologize and do everything you can to support him. Training, encouragement, the works.
It’s better that he tries to achieve his dream and have to do something else than to have it crushed out of him by his own father.
if he’s not great at football even though he’s living with a pro, that shows me how little you value him.
Some people simple don’t have the ability to be good at some things, no matter how hard they work at it, no matter who mentors them. Very, very few people have the ability to be a Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart regardless of what kind of mentorship they have.
Let me give you a concrete example.
I’ve had a major shoulder surgery after tearing the shit out of my supraspinatus and the labrum. The supraspinatus passes through the acromium process on the scapula. The acromium process has roughly three different shapes, which are largely determined by genetics. A type I acromium process is smooth, and allows the spuraspinatus to pass through easily. Type II and type III acromium processes have pronounced ‘hook’ shapes–type III significantly more so–that make injury to the supraspinatus much more probable. I have a type II acromium process. Had Mary Lou Retton been my mother and coach, and I’d tried to be a gymnast, I would have destroyed both of my shoulders long before I was ever going to be going to nation-level events; the limits of the shape of my scapula would have made success impossible, given that a strong and stable shoulder is required in gymnastics, regardless of sex/gender. I would likewise be unable to be a competitive powerlifter, for much the same reason; working up to a nationally competitive snatch would have also destroyed my shoulders. (And, in point of fact, it was working on push-presses that killed it.)
People are not a tabula rasa, only needing the proper encouragement to become paragons in a given field.
You are suffering from several fallacies.
- “Unless you can be the best, it’s not worth trying”
Fortunately, the world doesn’t operate this way. There are people who are mediocre, and sometimes poor, at playing football professionally or other professions. Your line of thinking would lead to only one person playing football at a time, the person who is the best at it, and everyone else should give up.
- “Meritocracy is real and the only determining factor of success”
While meritocracy is a nice thought, that the best inevitably rise to the top, it’s not necessarily true. Just as there’s circumstances that keep talent from succeeding, like financial background, biases against people, and luck, those things also can lift up the less talented. There’s many celebrities that aren’t as talented at acting as someone stuck in a small town.
- “I trust OP’s assessment”
As far as you know, op could be wrong. Maybe the kid plays great and OP is too critical, you don’t know. This could be a critical mistake on OP’s end, and making the kid give up doesn’t help regardless.
- “hard work doesn’t mean success, innate ability is the only thing that matters”
If this were true, no one would need to practice anything. You said Mozart succeeded because of his mentoring, but then argue for people having lack of natural talent leading to failure.
- “my back story is relevant”
It was also tempting to throw in the argument of verbosity. But your shoulder injury, or that some people are incapable of physically doing things, isn’t relevant. The kid is physically capable of playing football. It’s a false equivalence.
- “the kid will have the same level of ability at 16 forever”
You presume that this kid will only have the ability he is at, and that even with training, won’t get better. This ties into your belief in natural talent a bit, but it’s still pretty foolish to assume professional football players play at the level they did at 16, so it’s also foolish to assume that 16 is where this kid will peak.
- “the kid achieving the dream is the most important thing here”
This is where you missed the the bigger picture. There’s more on the line than just success at football, there’s a whole relationship at stake, and a kid’s mental and emotional health.
So that all said, look at it this way. There’s four scenarios that could’ve taken place, with four factors. Kid gets encouraged, let’s shorthand that to E. Kid gets discouraged, D. Kid succeeds at professional football, S. Kid fails at professional football, F.
ES is obviously the best. Kid gets support, becomes professional football player, everyone’s happy.
EF is disappointing, but salvageable. The kid gets the attitude of not giving up and at least Dad has his back. Maybe he tries something else after not making the cut, and has a great career at something he’s able to do, but at least he tried. He’s not going to be able to try forever, but he can at least try something new with a solid foundation.
DS is a tragic hero. Kid gets there but doesn’t have a great relationship with Dad. Success is tainted by bitterness, and every win is to prove Dad wrong. Doesn’t have a great relationship with Dad, and probably has a lasting issue because of it.
DF is the worst possible outcome, and at this point it’s the most likely. Kid has an even worse issue with Dad, dreams are crushed, and he grows up bitter and resentful. He’s taught to not try for anything he’s interested in, and lives a life of miserable mediocrity.
It’s my opinion that it’s better for parents to encourage their children in their dreams, because the success rate is probably higher and at the very least they get the support they need to try something different. It’s almost never a great idea to discourage a child because that leads to resentment and lethargy.
You aren’t saving anyone by telling them to give up. That’s a decision they should make on their own. This is even more true for a child who is still developing who they are and how they see the world.
You’re making a ton of straw-man arguments.
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You don’t have to be the best. You do have to be good enough to get scouted by a professional team if your goal is to play professionally. I never at any point said that it wasn’t worth playing if you couldn’t be the best or do it professionally. I spend a lot of time shooting competitively; it’s likely that I will never make Master or Grandmaster in anything, and as a result I’m never going to be sponsored or be able to earn a living at it. (…Not that the money is very good anyways.) So what? I still have fun.
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In sports, playing professionally is a meritocracy. Socioeconomic class matters insofar as having more wealth and privilege means that you’ll have access to better training prior to becoming a professional. But the child in question already has access to training, through a parent that plays professionally. But that’s all the farther that socioeconomic class gets you in sports. People from poorer backgrounds often get to go far in sports, if they have the skill.
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Yes, OP could be wrong. On the other hand, OP is claiming to be a professional in the field, and is therefore more likely to have an informed opinion.
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Success is a combination of directed effort, an inherent capability; it’s not one or the other. If you lack certain inherent capabilities, then all the directed effort in the world won’t get you where you want to be. You can have all the gifts to achieve greatness in a given field, and yet fail completely if you don’t carefully direct your ability in that area.
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See above. The kid already has access to top-tier training, and is not making the grade necessary to perform at a professional level. Ergo, the part that is lacking is capability. …Which is why my anecdote is relevant; it’s not my unwillingness to work my ass off that has limited my power lifting aspirations, it’s my physical capabilities. (And yes, I really did work at power lifting. And will again once my shoulder finished healing, even though I’m never going to be competitive at any level.)
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Of course the kid isn’t going to be at the same level forever. But he’s not on track to be at a level where he’s capable of playing professionally. A 16yo that’s capable of going pro–esp. when they have access to high-level training–would be expected to be performing at a certain level. According to OP, he isn’t. The probability is that, while he will continue to improve (up until age catches up with him), he is not going to be at a professional level in time to make a career of it.
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You’re drawing a false dichotomy between being honest/realistic with your children, and having a relationship with them. I’m gathering, from what you’re saying, that you don’t believe that the parent should give their child a realistic assessment of their performance, and should simply be encouraging; it that correct? It seem like you believe that putting all of your effort into a goal, and failing to achieve that goal would not cause deep bitterness on its own; am I reading that correctly?
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“It’s my opinion that it’s better for parents to encourage their children in their dreams […]” I partially disagree. I think that parents need to encourage children to set realistic goals in life, and goals that can be stretch goals. Maybe that looks like going to school to become a biologist, and going on to medical school if biology ends up being fairly easy for them. Maybe that looks like going into a trade if they’re good at working with their hands. Playing professional sports–or being a touring musician that makes enough to live on, etc.–is like winning a jackpot in the lottery. Sure, you gotta play in order to win, but for every person that wins there’s millions of people that don’t. I would hope that you would say that anyone planning for retirement by buying lottery tickets was a fool, even if that person was your child. But even so, you can play sport for fun.
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This is incredibly bad advice
How? You’re saying it’s better to tell your kid their dreams suck and they shouldn’t try? What a great parenting strategy.
If he doesn’t have what it takes, and he keeps encouraging him to go for that anyway, then he’d be encouraging his son to live in a fantasy world until he gets mowed down by the real one. That would not be a favor to his son. It would be a failure in his duty to prepare him for adult life.
If you’re a pro, then you know coaches.
Coaches who you could engage on friendly terms to say “Hey, can you coach my kid? And if needs be, let him down gently?” - see what they think of his potential, and if they need to be the one to tell him he is unlikely to make it, then it’s going to be easier coming from then than from his own Dad. You get to look like you’re backing him by sending him to “one of the best coaches in the business” and then console him when they deliver the rough news…
You’re doing him a favor. Even if he was just as good as you, he wouldn’t be guaranteed to have as much luck as you did. Might never be seen by the right people at the right time. He needs a realistic career plan regardless of whether he tries to make it professionally.
I don’t have kids and I don’t know anything about sports. If you continue reading after those disclosures, I’ll offer a perspective anyway, since you put this out to the internet for comment.
There isn’t really a way you could have put this to your son that would be taken well, it’s evidently sensitive for him and despite your intentions it’ll feel like a tragic monent. It’s just hard news. Whether it’s right to break that to him, well I’m not sure but I think maybe you’re putting too much emphasis on this one interaction like it was your one shot and there was a definitive right it wrong way to do it. What will matter most is more likely to be what you do generally moving forward. You may have your doubts about his ability in his chosen path and perhaps they’re well founded but you can still encourage him and be rooting for him whilst gently suggesting having backup options in times when he appears uncertain. If you consistently do all you can to help in whatever way you can with whatever choices he makes, then if they don’t work out and he has to abandon that dream, he’ll at least know you supported him all throughout despite your concern and that should count for a lot. If somehow he ends up unexpectedly rocketing to success in football he’ll also remember you’d been there all along encouraging and assisting. It’s ok to counsel against putting his eggs all in one basket, but just don’t push it, you must respect his choice whatever it ends up being and he there to help pick up the pieces if those choices don’t make him happy.
Much like with football fans, you support your team by just showing up to every match and cheering on. Perhaps he didn’t like the uncomfortable dose of reality today but so long as you are consistently a positive and helpful force he’ll hopefully come to appreciate what you’ve been trying to do for him.
Get one of your professional contacts to honestly evaluate him.
You can’t objectively evaluate him since he’s your kid, and any advice he hears from you will be subject to scrutiny since you’re his parent.
If you’re right then your message will be more believable from a third party, and if you’re wrong then they will hopefully catch that.
Either way, you are right to try to set him up for success; that’s your job as his parent.
I love this idea.
Let him try to aim for it… As long as he doesn’t neglect his education and other opportunities them there’s no harm in giving him some years to figure this out himself the hard way.
Since you are a professional who has happened to make it with some level of success, you know firsthand that there are a lot of excellent people who didn’t manage it for one reason or another. (And it’s not always because of lack of talent, they might have just gotten the wrong injury). How did they manage things when they finally came to terms with the fact they wouldn’t make a living doing that? What did they have to fall back on? Are they coaching? Teaching? Selling real estate or insurance?
There is nothing wrong with him chasing his dream, but make sure he has an alternative planned. Make him talk to some of those people, and find his own path. Don’t focus on whether or not he has the talent to make it, but on the fact that even people with all the talent sometimes don’t make it, through no fault of their own. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
Depends on when they came to terms with it. The ones who did early on (like if my son did now) just did a 180° easily and moved onto something else. Those who did later on either did a 180° as well, teaching or coaching (this is a tricky one as great coaches / managers tend to be former pro players themselves - it’s a bit harder to breakthrough here).
You’re literally a professional and your first thought isn’t to use your own skills to coach him to get better?
All industries that pay well are competitive.
Who said I haven’t? I said he’s been playing since he was 6. At a pro football club, with coaches and all + obviously my help. That’s the nurture part. The nature part also has to be good though.
Who said I haven’t?
Well you didn’t say either way in your initial post. How are people who read it supposed to just know you’ve already nurtured it? It doesn’t come off that way from the way it’s written, just so you know.
If it doesn’t say either way, you also shouldn’t assume and make such a strongly worded comment. This post doesn’t give me a clue in either direction, just so you know.
Don’t tell him that he can’t do something. Let him figure it out on his own.
Sometimes you need an honest feedback, and your family should be the first one to hear. It doesn’t mean they are right, but it may save you some time.
Did you go straight into being a pro footballer? Or did you have back up plans? Like “if this doesn’t work out, I’ll be an electrician” or something?
I’ve never had super lofty goals, but my parents always supported me in what I wanted to do. They never tried to steer me, but they did ask pertinent questions about what I was planning at various points. Probably to hint at bad idea.
I feel like I could have asked them for money/support at any point for any of my projects/ideas/whatevers, and - after making sure I was serious - would have helped out however they could.
I have a very unique career at this point, and I am only in this position because of the eclectic experience I have. And it is completely unrelated to my dreams as a kid or what I studied at university.Ultimately, he is growing up. He’s going to have to make mistakes.
I’d say you have to be prepared to support him as much as you can in his dream of being a pro footballer.
Maybe he won’t be a pro footballer, but he might get a satisfying career out of being football-adjacent. Medic, science, coaching.
Or maybe he will try it for 5 years and eventually realise it’s not gonna happen, and be an electrician.
Or maybe he will struggle for 2 years, realise he needs to double down, and make the cut a year later.I had a friend when I was growing up that dreamed of being an RAF pilot. Everything he did was around that.
Due to some unfortunate life circumstances, that dream was ripped away in the space of a week. Completely out of anyone’s control, but he could no longer qualify as an RAF pilot.
He was heartbroken. He’s now an engineer/mechanic in the RAF and loves tinkering with cars.He shouldn’t find another dream.
But he should be aware that dreams don’t always come about. And if this dream doesn’t, would he be happy in an adjacent career? Or something else entirely?
Help him research the backup plan.Our circumstances are very different. I’m from a dirt poor family. Football was a free / cheap sport to practice. I was also not very academically inclined. For me it was football or nothing, no backup plans, as I wanted to make money. I dropped out of school & moved into the club’s dorms to fully focus on that. I didn’t really have any other options. He, on the other hand, has all the resources and support in the world to choose any other path. He’s also doing great in school.
Sounds like you have had a very productive life! Your son is very lucky.
Encourage the education. But there are loads of good careers that don’t need university degrees.
And all the while, he can try and achieve his dream.From personal experience, university wasn’t useful for me - other than giving me time to figure out what I don’t want to do, and meeting friends that are still friends to this day.
But I could’ve easily done an apprenticeship, or gone straight into some industry/company. Some days, I wish I had. Other days, I wouldn’t want to be doing anything other than what I am atm.Dream case, he makes it.
Best case, he figures out what he wants to do by 21.
Worst case, he’s still figuring it out when he’s 25.I wasn’t making decent money until I was late 20s. Even now, I can’t guarantee I have enough work next year. It’s extremely likely, but I’m self employed so…
Knowing my folks will still support me means I can continue pursuing interesting, useful and innovative things, even in my 30s - even tho the support is no longer required.Maybe talk to some of your contacts in the football industry.
See if they have similar “football or nothing”, or if they had backup plans.
Talk to some managers, coaches, sports scientists, medics etc.
Ask them how they would get into pro football. Ask them what happens to pro-football aspiring players that don’t make the cut.
Use your experience and connections to help and support your son. And be there if it doesn’t work out.
You might know better, but he still has to learn. The best lessons are mistakes.Could he have any interest in taking on other roles, like training or management? If he’s doing great in school, and has a direct connection to learning the ins and the outs of the industry through you, as well as connections, he could have a significant leg up.
I don’t think you’re a jerk. I think you’re extremely fortunate. A guy in my old neighborhood had no backup plans, and one injury with permanent repurcuasions left him angry, bitter and hostile, also violent. I think you did the best you could on the spur of the moment, that’s fine. You are free to adjust as you seek wisdom. Best of luck to both of you!
I wouldn’t say “jerk”, but maybe a little insensitive to supporting his dreams. The hard part about being a parent is that your kid needs to fail sometimes, and your protesting to the failing will only create a divide between you two. Offering advice once is totally fine, but continuing will make the situation worse. He will likely fail pursuing his dream, and reality will hit him hard afterwards, but that’s ok. Just make sure he has your support, and he knows you love him.
It doesn’t matter that you’ve learned this life lesson already. He hasn’t. Sometimes, you have to learn the hard way for it to stick.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion: no, you’re not a jerk for doing this. Steering our children onto a realistic path of reasonable success and happiness is part of our job as parents. We should pursue this gently, but it mustn’t be avoided. Parenting is hard. We won’t always get it right.
