• elucubra@sopuli.xyz
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    2 hours ago

    Could a kind soul ELI5 this? Well, maybe ELI8. I did quite a bit of programming in the 90-00s as part of my job, although nowadays I’m more of a script kiddie.

    • superheitmann@programming.dev
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      2 hours ago

      A Boolean is a true/false value. It can only be those two values and there be represented by a single bit (1 or 0).

      In most languages a Boolean variable occupies the space of a full byte (8 bit) even though only a single of those bits is needed for representing the Boolean.

      That’s mostly because computers can’t load a bit. They can only load bytes. Your memory is a single space where each byte has a numeric address. Starting from 0 and going to whatever amount of memory you have available. This is not really true because on most operating systems each process gets a virtual memory space but its true for many microcontrollers. You can load and address each f these bytes but it will always be a byte. That’s why booleans are stored as bytes because youd have to pack them with other data on the same address other wise and that’s getting complicated.

      Talking about getting complicated, in C++ a std::vector<bool> is specialized as a bit field. Each of the values in that vector only occupy a single bit and you can get a vector of size 8 in a single byte. This becomes problematic when you want to store references or pointers to one of the elements or when you’re working with them in a loop because the elements are not of type bool but some bool-reference type.

    • feddup@feddit.uk
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      2 hours ago

      A boolean value only needs 1 bit (on or off) for true or false. However the smallest bit of addressable memory is a byte (8 bits) hence 7 are technically wasted.

      For low memory devices you could instead store 8 different Boolean values in one single byte by using bit masking instead

  • mavu@discuss.tchncs.de
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    7 hours ago

    This reminds me that I actually once made a class to store bools packed in uint8 array to save bytes.

    Had forgotten that. I think i have to update the list of top 10 dumbest things i ever did.

  • ssfckdt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    10 hours ago

    I swore I read that mysql dbs will store multiple bools in a row as bit maps in one byte. I can’t prove it though

  • steeznson@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    We need to be able to express 0 and 1 as integers so that functionality is just being overloaded to express another concept.

    Wait until the person who made this meme finds out about how many bits are being wasted on modern CPU architectures. 7 is the minimum possible wasted bits but it would be 31 on every modern computer (even 64b machines since they default to 32b ints).

  • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
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    1 day ago

    In the industrial automation world and most of the IT industry, data is aligned to the nearest word. Depending on architecture, that’s usually either 16, 32, or 64 bits. And that’s the space a single Boolean takes.

    • Anders429@programming.dev
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      20 hours ago

      It would be slower to read the value if you had to also do bitwise operations to get the value.

      But you can also define your own bitfield types to store booleans packed together if you really need to. I would much rather that than have the compiler do it automatically for me.

    • timhh@programming.dev
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      21 hours ago

      Well there are containers that store booleans in single bits (e.g. std::vector<bool> - which was famously a big mistake).

      But in the general case you don’t want that because it would be slower.

    • gamer@lemm.ee
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      17 hours ago

      Consider what the disassembly would look like. There’s no fast way to do it.

      It’s also unnecessary since 8 bytes is a negligible amount in most cases. Serialization is the only real scenario where it matters. (Edit: and embedded)

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        8 hours ago

        In embedded, if you are to the point that you need to optimize the bools to reduce the footprint, you fucked up sizing your mcu.

  • skisnow@lemmy.ca
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    1 day ago

    Back in the day when it mattered, we did it like

    #define BV00		(1 <<  0)
    #define BV01		(1 <<  1)
    #define BV02		(1 <<  2)
    #define BV03		(1 <<  3)
    ...etc
    
    #define IS_SET(flag, bit)	((flag) & (bit))
    #define SET_BIT(var, bit)	((var) |= (bit))
    #define REMOVE_BIT(var, bit)	((var) &= ~(bit))
    #define TOGGLE_BIT(var, bit)	((var) ^= (bit))
    
    ....then...
    #define MY_FIRST_BOOLEAN BV00
    SET_BIT(myFlags, MY_FIRST_BOOLEAN)
    
    
    • ethancedwards8@programming.dev
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      12 hours ago

      Okay. Gen z programmer here. Can you explain this black magic? I see it all the time in kernel code but I have no idea what it means.

      • skisnow@lemmy.ca
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        4 hours ago

        The code is a set of preprocessor macros to stuff loads of booleans into one int (or similar), in this case named ‘myFlags’. The preprocessor is a simple (some argue too simple) step at the start of compilation that modifies the source code on its way to the real compiler by substituting #defines, prepending #include’d files, etc.

        If myFlags is equal to, e.g. 67, that’s 01000011, meaning that BV00, BV01, and BV07 are all TRUE and the others are FALSE.

        The first part is just for convenience and readability. BV00 represents the 0th bit, BV01 is the first etc. (1 << 3) means 00000001, bit shifted left three times so it becomes 00001000 (aka 8).

        The middle chunk defines macros to make bit operations more human-readable.

        Calling SET_BIT(myFlags, MY_FIRST_BOOLEAN) gets turned into ((myFlags) |= ((1 << 0))) , which could be simplified as myFlags = myFlags | 00000001 . (Ignore the flood of parentheses, they’re there for safety due to the loaded shotgun nature of the preprocessor.)

      • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        It’s called bitshifting and is used to select which bits you want to modify so you can toggle them individually.

        1 << 0 is the flag for the first bit
        1 << 1 for the second
        1 << 2 for the third and so on

        I think that’s correct. It’s been years since I’ve used this technique tbh 😅

    • Quatlicopatlix@feddit.org
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      21 hours ago

      With embedded stuff its still done like that. And if you go from the arduino functionss to writing the registers directly its a hell of a lot faster.

  • KindaABigDyl@programming.dev
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    2 days ago
    typedef struct {
        bool a: 1;
        bool b: 1;
        bool c: 1;
        bool d: 1;
        bool e: 1;
        bool f: 1;
        bool g: 1;
        bool h: 1;
    } __attribute__((__packed__)) not_if_you_have_enough_booleans_t;
    
    • h4x0r@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      This was gonna be my response to OP so I’ll offer an alternative approach instead:

      typedef enum flags_e : unsigned char {
        F_1 = (1 << 0),
        F_2 = (1 << 1),
        F_3 = (1 << 2),
        F_4 = (1 << 3),
        F_5 = (1 << 4),
        F_6 = (1 << 5),
        F_7 = (1 << 6),
        F_8 = (1 << 7),
      } Flags;
      
      int main(void) {
        Flags f = F_1 | F_3 | F_5;
        if (f & F_1 && f & F_3) {
          // do F_1 and F_3 stuff
        }
      }
      
      • anotherandrew@lemmy.mixdown.ca
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        20 hours ago

        Why not if (f & (F_1 | F_3)) {? I use this all the time in embedded code.

        edit: never mind; you’re checking for both flags. I’d probably use (f & (F_1 | F_3)) == (F_1 | F_3) but that’s not much different than what you wrote.

    • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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      2 days ago

      Or just std::bitset<8> for C++. Bit fields are neat though, it can store weird stuff like a 3 bit integer, packed next to booleans

  • JakenVeina@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    It’s far more often stored in a word, so 32-64 bytes, depending on the target architecture. At least in most languages.

    • timhh@programming.dev
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      21 hours ago

      No it isn’t. All statically typed languages I know of use a byte. Which languages store it in an entire 32 bits? That would be unnecessarily wasteful.