Would love some older internet gen input here: is this a “gen [whatever] is so [negative trait here] because they are [generation group]” or “younger ppl be stupid”?
Context: Am a millennial. At my first “real job” (as in, in the industry I got my degree in) I worked with ONE (1) other person, who was an early Gen-Xer. After developing a report with each other and becoming friendly, he lamented to me about how it seems like “millennials (not you, of course)” seem so helpless - like they can’t figure things out on their own. Always asking “where is-” or “how do i-” before even examining the problem at hand and/or the resources available.
This dude was a self-proclaimed “blue fish in a red sea,” and we worked with a wide age-range of sales ppl. I mention this, bc in the two years I worked with this nerd (and he was a fucking nerd, taking into account modern day and late 80s-early 90s standards of the term), his complaints about millennials never sounded like media parrot-speech. He was literally befuddled about the operational differences between generations.
It 100% seemed like an ageist thing. This was the late 2010’s, pre-covid.
I’m in my 30s now and am equally baffled when my teenaged niece (weird familial age gap - not relevant here) doesn’t know how to make the tap water hot when there’s only one knob instead of two. She asked outloud but I refused to acknowledge or answer her. Niece figured it out shortly on her own, as expected.
So-… maybe younger people are just, yknow, dumb? Or recognize that, when surrounded by more experienced others, it takes less effort to ask for guidance than to waste energy through trial and error-?
Not trying to prove a point here. Just legit curious if anyone older has had similar experiences and can offer insight into whether this is a “zoomers are-” or “younger people are-” observation.
We were equally dumb when younger, it is just that we look at them now with the experience we accumulated.
And we can flip the table and ask why no one is taking the time to train these young people. Stop being an old grumpy person and help the next generation.
I’ve definitely noticed the younger ones are used to asking any question and having it simply answered. They grew up with the internet, it’s obvious I suppose, and chatgpt is just going to make that worse. The juniors and entry-level people coming in are smart, but I feel like I’m seeing lower problem solving and critical thinking.
Things like “it doesn’t work”, okay well what you you tried? What things did you attempt before giving up. Idk, definitely a different mindset.
It’s difficult not to mouth off, but perhaps worth the effort.
My 6yo will look for an object for approximately 0.25 seconds before yelling to ask where it is. Sometimes he can’t even spot things I’m pointing directly at.
Other times I’m taken off guard by his quick wit or long memory.
Wisdom always comes at a cost. We should not shame those who are still saving up for the down payment.
I agree with you. And to extend your metaphor, we can and should help them build up their savings. One thing parents can do to help is to give their children hints without giving the answer.
In your example, instead of pointing directly to the object, I would say, “Where have you looked? Try three places where you think it could be.” After that, if he still couldn’t find it, I would say, “It’s right here in this room. I can see it. Can you find it?” Then I’d let him spend some time looking for it.
I’m an elementary school teacher, and it blows my mind how often children expect the adults around them to drop everything to help them find a pencil (which is in their pencil case, right where it should be) or a paper (almost always in their desk, folder, or cubby) without expending any effort to find it themselves. This obviously works for them at home, but it removes their personal responsibility for keeping up with their own supplies.
If we want to raise a generation of independent, critical thinkers, then we have to give them opportunities to be those things. We have to give them space to try for themselves. We celebrate with them when they’re successful, and we provide them with the support they need to try again when they fail. Both experiences are necessary for their growth and development.
Part of it is that they’ve grown up with smartphones and tablets, so they don’t understand the basic functions of computers.
Schools have mostly moved to Chromebooks, so kids don’t learn how to save and organize files locally. Everything in their lives is in the cloud or in a specialized app.
Trying to work on a PC with a shared file server on a business network without additional training is like trying to converse in a language they’ve never spoken.
GenXers and elder Millennials were the last people who learned tech skills on PCs first. There are very few younger people who ever needed to learn basic DOS prompts or how to troubleshoot problems.
They’re used to everything just working without additional intervention, and they have no idea where to start looking for answers when it doesn’t. Most of that is our fault – we’ve made things far too easy for them because it’s more comfortable for us as parents and teachers to give them the answers than to guide them as they struggle with the challenge.
I’m training a 26yo right now. He’s eager to figure things out. I’ve made things easy and comfortable to learn and he’s thriving on my efforts (positivly) he’s doing well with appropriate training. However I have a 50 year old that is trailing heavily behind because he wants things to just work.
I’m trying to build a system that provides ease of use but it seems like the older gen isn’t interested in it working and more just like getting an easy paycheck.
Since I started learning enough about computers that I have a reason to be hanging out in forums and issue trackers I’ve really changed the way I think about tech problems.
From feedback given to me, and to others, and from general posting guidelines, I learned to be more systematic about looking for answer. Going through the process of writing out in full what happened can clarify things. I often start writing a question, never to post it because it gets solved half way through. Assemble the logs. Check the environment isn’t wonky somehow. Upgrade everything. Check the docs. Check the latest release notes. Verify the details.
I’ve always been comfortable with the software side of computers but I have a lot more confidence lately because of all this. But I never would have been able to learn it on my own. Equally important as the thinking is that I know I can lean on community members to help me get through those cognitive bottlenecks. By reading the vast archives of prior discussions and problem solving, and occasionally asking my own, or even answering if possible, I’m getting smarter at my areas of interest every year.
But I wasn’t born knowing that, nor was it kept from me. I got socialized into a certain way of doing and thinking things that is appropriate to these situations. There is no reason why any newcomer would arrive so socialized. So you need to bring them through the process.
The thing is, research and learning is itself a skill that must be learned, and they don’t teach critical thinking skills in school. Without an occasional friction-laden experience of figuring something out by trial and error, you won’t ever learn HOW to learn, and I think that’s the thing people get hung up on here. It not “younger ppl be stupid” its just literally “younger people are generally exhibiting less and less critical thinking skills year over year”.
Seems kind of like he’s shaming people for asking questions at work, which is kind of a bad take. Does he know that they didn’t examine the problem first?
What’s the point of these shitty designations? Isn’t hatred caused by racism etc. enough for people? Do you really have to artificially talk about a better DNA like Hitler in order to discriminate against and hate a large part of humanity?
Fuck anyone who uses such bullshit discrimination.
It’s the same fucking thinking as the nazis… The main thing is to make huge groups that you can hate and you think you’re above them…
Would love some older internet gen input here: is this a “gen [whatever] is so [negative trait here] because they are [generation group]” or “younger ppl be stupid”?
Context: Am a millennial. At my first “real job” (as in, in the industry I got my degree in) I worked with ONE (1) other person, who was an early Gen-Xer. After developing a report with each other and becoming friendly, he lamented to me about how it seems like “millennials (not you, of course)” seem so helpless - like they can’t figure things out on their own. Always asking “where is-” or “how do i-” before even examining the problem at hand and/or the resources available.
This dude was a self-proclaimed “blue fish in a red sea,” and we worked with a wide age-range of sales ppl. I mention this, bc in the two years I worked with this nerd (and he was a fucking nerd, taking into account modern day and late 80s-early 90s standards of the term), his complaints about millennials never sounded like media parrot-speech. He was literally befuddled about the operational differences between generations.
It 100% seemed like an ageist thing. This was the late 2010’s, pre-covid.
I’m in my 30s now and am equally baffled when my teenaged niece (weird familial age gap - not relevant here) doesn’t know how to make the tap water hot when there’s only one knob instead of two. She asked outloud but I refused to acknowledge or answer her. Niece figured it out shortly on her own, as expected.
So-… maybe younger people are just, yknow, dumb? Or recognize that, when surrounded by more experienced others, it takes less effort to ask for guidance than to waste energy through trial and error-?
Not trying to prove a point here. Just legit curious if anyone older has had similar experiences and can offer insight into whether this is a “zoomers are-” or “younger people are-” observation.
I think you’re spot on with “young people dumb”. Takes a while to figure out… like, everything.
Generations will have different strong and\or weak areas because their environment changes, but our sum total of “competence” will stay the same IMHO.
We were equally dumb when younger, it is just that we look at them now with the experience we accumulated.
And we can flip the table and ask why no one is taking the time to train these young people. Stop being an old grumpy person and help the next generation.
My husband is an IT engeneer and every day is a different story about how zoomers don’t even know how to save a pdf file or print some shit
I’ve definitely noticed the younger ones are used to asking any question and having it simply answered. They grew up with the internet, it’s obvious I suppose, and chatgpt is just going to make that worse. The juniors and entry-level people coming in are smart, but I feel like I’m seeing lower problem solving and critical thinking.
Things like “it doesn’t work”, okay well what you you tried? What things did you attempt before giving up. Idk, definitely a different mindset.
It’s difficult not to mouth off, but perhaps worth the effort.
My 6yo will look for an object for approximately 0.25 seconds before yelling to ask where it is. Sometimes he can’t even spot things I’m pointing directly at.
Other times I’m taken off guard by his quick wit or long memory.
Wisdom always comes at a cost. We should not shame those who are still saving up for the down payment.
I agree with you. And to extend your metaphor, we can and should help them build up their savings. One thing parents can do to help is to give their children hints without giving the answer.
In your example, instead of pointing directly to the object, I would say, “Where have you looked? Try three places where you think it could be.” After that, if he still couldn’t find it, I would say, “It’s right here in this room. I can see it. Can you find it?” Then I’d let him spend some time looking for it.
I’m an elementary school teacher, and it blows my mind how often children expect the adults around them to drop everything to help them find a pencil (which is in their pencil case, right where it should be) or a paper (almost always in their desk, folder, or cubby) without expending any effort to find it themselves. This obviously works for them at home, but it removes their personal responsibility for keeping up with their own supplies.
If we want to raise a generation of independent, critical thinkers, then we have to give them opportunities to be those things. We have to give them space to try for themselves. We celebrate with them when they’re successful, and we provide them with the support they need to try again when they fail. Both experiences are necessary for their growth and development.
When an elementary school teacher thinks I’ve said something good, I can ride that high all day. Nobody can say shit to me now
but the advice is that instead of pointing, tell a riddle
They liked my metaphor, not my pointing
Told y’all nobody can say shit to me
That’s a great saying about wisdom, I’m going to use that some time.
Part of it is that they’ve grown up with smartphones and tablets, so they don’t understand the basic functions of computers.
Schools have mostly moved to Chromebooks, so kids don’t learn how to save and organize files locally. Everything in their lives is in the cloud or in a specialized app.
Trying to work on a PC with a shared file server on a business network without additional training is like trying to converse in a language they’ve never spoken.
GenXers and elder Millennials were the last people who learned tech skills on PCs first. There are very few younger people who ever needed to learn basic DOS prompts or how to troubleshoot problems.
They’re used to everything just working without additional intervention, and they have no idea where to start looking for answers when it doesn’t. Most of that is our fault – we’ve made things far too easy for them because it’s more comfortable for us as parents and teachers to give them the answers than to guide them as they struggle with the challenge.
It is a deliberate choice by corpos to dumb everything down so that they can lock people in their ecosystem.
If you don’t know how things work, it’s a lot harded to switch to a new ecosystem.
I’m training a 26yo right now. He’s eager to figure things out. I’ve made things easy and comfortable to learn and he’s thriving on my efforts (positivly) he’s doing well with appropriate training. However I have a 50 year old that is trailing heavily behind because he wants things to just work.
I’m trying to build a system that provides ease of use but it seems like the older gen isn’t interested in it working and more just like getting an easy paycheck.
Since I started learning enough about computers that I have a reason to be hanging out in forums and issue trackers I’ve really changed the way I think about tech problems.
From feedback given to me, and to others, and from general posting guidelines, I learned to be more systematic about looking for answer. Going through the process of writing out in full what happened can clarify things. I often start writing a question, never to post it because it gets solved half way through. Assemble the logs. Check the environment isn’t wonky somehow. Upgrade everything. Check the docs. Check the latest release notes. Verify the details.
I’ve always been comfortable with the software side of computers but I have a lot more confidence lately because of all this. But I never would have been able to learn it on my own. Equally important as the thinking is that I know I can lean on community members to help me get through those cognitive bottlenecks. By reading the vast archives of prior discussions and problem solving, and occasionally asking my own, or even answering if possible, I’m getting smarter at my areas of interest every year.
But I wasn’t born knowing that, nor was it kept from me. I got socialized into a certain way of doing and thinking things that is appropriate to these situations. There is no reason why any newcomer would arrive so socialized. So you need to bring them through the process.
The thing is, research and learning is itself a skill that must be learned, and they don’t teach critical thinking skills in school. Without an occasional friction-laden experience of figuring something out by trial and error, you won’t ever learn HOW to learn, and I think that’s the thing people get hung up on here. It not “younger ppl be stupid” its just literally “younger people are generally exhibiting less and less critical thinking skills year over year”.
Seems kind of like he’s shaming people for asking questions at work, which is kind of a bad take. Does he know that they didn’t examine the problem first?
The word you wanted there was “rapport.”
What’s the point of these shitty designations? Isn’t hatred caused by racism etc. enough for people? Do you really have to artificially talk about a better DNA like Hitler in order to discriminate against and hate a large part of humanity? Fuck anyone who uses such bullshit discrimination.
It’s the same fucking thinking as the nazis… The main thing is to make huge groups that you can hate and you think you’re above them…