Note that I’m not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him – my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the “evil transgenders” stereotype
Identity politics are cancerous
Yea, as awful as the NY Post is for framing it this way, this ain’t about them being trans. She bought a knife, wanted to stab someone, picked a fight and continually escalated (she fucking spat on him, sorry but bodily fluids are an assault and the dude had every right to treat it as being hit) until she pulled a knife in an encounter she started.
Got hit three times before pulling a knife? Just cuz she was too fucking slow to stab him after the first hit like she wanted to.
Can’t believe there’s people defending this.
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She bought a knife, wanted to stab someone
Sorry, but when a “news” journal is that deep into batshit clickbait propaganda, you can’t use other articles written by them as a source of truth. Hell the second article isn’t even an article it’s just a statement with no source, wrapped in acid.
I’m not saying she’s innocent or that it was called for, but there’s no reliable truth in that article other than the man is dead.
Guns aren’t allowed in New York, She’s trans, needs to protect herself. It was a steak knife, not exactly a weapon you use to fight someone for funsies.
If she was pure evil, she would have gotten 25 years. They gave her 15 because she was in the wrong, but it wasn’t black and white.
Here’s CBS.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/usps-worker-stabbed-to-death-in-harlem/
Keep being a heroic dumbass
well that’s a GREAT way to get blocked, don’t let the door hit ya!
For posting an article proving many points of your statement to be incorrect?
Do you find it unacceptable or rude just to correct you? Or just tone because you need people to only interact with you the way you want?
Nah, I already read half a dozen articles on it from outside the US.
It was the nasty little comment. There’s no excuse for that tone here. If you can’t argue in good faith without being nasty, they get blocked.
I had already read the take from several neutral news sources that had dug further and clarified their information without going out of their way to be pejorative.
Also of note, when arguing, you don’t just go nuh uh and post a single link for someone to read. My problem was clearly with the tone of the bad-faith source they originally used. But then, if you go and look at their post history, they’re just constantly trolling.
Their account has a lengthy history of negative karma, and I don’t have time for that. Honestly, none of us should put up with that. Block the people being nasty and move on.
Her case is over, she plead out, she is sentenced. she got a middle of the road sentence for the crime.
Now, let’s suppose we do cover that article that is in your own words, “proving many points of your statement to be incorrect”. What exactly do you say that disproves? It says it happened, that’s certainly not up for debate. It says Hodge died, and she was arrested and charged with murder. Then then paraphrase the deli managers statement “According to the deli worker, in that instant, the woman pulled out a knife and stabbed Hodge in the stomach.”
There isn’t anything in that article that is substantially against my statement. You should consider re-reading what I wrote and understand I didn’t claim she didn’t do it, and wasn’t in any case innocent.
But, if you go and read any one of the other articles, or, what has been listed otherwise in this post, (or the actual coverage of the evidence in the court case) There was back and forth. Spitting and insults were raised, tensions were high, he might have thrown a bottle at her and likely called her names. She threatened him before stabbing him.
Rich and another customer tried to intervene, but neither Cruz nor Hodge wanted to back down, Rich said. ‘I got in between them - twice,’ said Rich, who remembered another woman joining her and trying to get Hodge to stand down. ‘Don’t to this, you have a good job, let this go,’ Rich recalled the other woman saying. Rich said Hodge, however, took his coat off and said to Cruz, ‘You want to stab me?’
Yeah, she’s guilty AF, but it wasn’t premeditated. She has some psychological issues, but she’s not some satan hellspawn looking for people to stab. She needs help, it’s good that she’s off the street. It’s fucking Harlem man, if someone threatens to stab you, take em at their word.
Here is CBS’s coverage of the event:
A deli worker told CBS News New York that Hodge was ordering a sandwich when a woman at the counter got angry and began arguing with him over who was first in line to order. According to the deli worker, in that instant, the woman pulled out a knife and stabbed Hodge in the stomach. USPS confirmed Hodge was a letter carrier assigned to Manhattan.
It appears to have started over a dispute over who was first in line. It’s up to you to decide if that’s a rational reason to attack someone with a knife, regardless of your sexuality / gender identity.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/usps-worker-stabbed-to-death-in-harlem/
Look at all the heroic liberals blindly defending a psycho.
Read the fucking article
Most people are not defending her, but are instead upset by the blatantly bigoted framing of the article.
Read the fucking headline.
Uhhh. No I am actually seeing at least half of the conversation in here being about how they did nothing wrong and should have stabbed the post-worker.
Literally on my comment is someone making up a version of the story based in the OP version of the story to declare an innacurate version of this event.
You claim the postal worker attacked the woman. I’m not finding any information about that. What was the nature of this “attack”?
Ahh the good ole broken post
People need to stop picking sides and in groups. If people are mistreating you it doesn’t really matter what group you belong in as that’s more just for personal identification and doesn’t help the situation at all to defend based on sides.
Ehh, no one here will care when our identity is all we think that matters. But this just further divides the groups and continues the work of the assholes that think it useful to do so.
Transphobe bigot: attacks trans woman for being trans, in a clear case of hate crime
Lemmy bazinga brains: “guys let’s just stop picking sides”
That is not what happened. Literally please one of the many recaps or article links about this person that cut in line then stabbed the person that called them out for it and not just headlines and assume you understand everything.
cut in line then stabbed the person
I’ve actually read it, you’re missing the part where the reaction to cutting a line was a slur against trans people, and the part where the dead guy literally started physically assaulting the one with the knife.
The US is literally in a descent to fascism, killing overtly violent and transphobe individuals is a good thing
Very clearly then we are both continuing to misconstrue the event as you are also leaving out important parts of the news article. It was a nasty back and forth and unpleasant on both sides. Involving spitting and punching but one person was stabbed 14 times over it and the one doing it has done so 5 times before.
People were not being good to each other here and I do not feel either side needs my sympathy but the side still alive will need to accept repurcusions of killing another person for their actions and they don’t need our cheering.
Fight fascism don’t fight on behalf of those that don’t need protection. This won’t help us.
Tell me you’re privileged without telling me you’re privileged
Yeah I am not. I don’t have the privilege and never have to stab my attackers and they get away with being seen as good people despite the trauma I am left with. I’m a member of the LGBTQ community and was sexually assaulted by 2 partners and a parent.
You just don’t like people disagreeing with your point of view so you decide you know who they are to justify thinking they must be a person you dismiss.
Shame I asked for community and good treatment of others.
Can’t really expect better from that rag
She stabbed him because he was s mail man?
The fuck?
Not helping dude
How bad is your reading comprehension?
Does this mean they’ll put “cisgender” in the title for all the other criminals?
this post is complete dogshit. “self defense” my ass
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That’s easy to say when you’re not the one getting punched in the face repeatedly. You never know he far a violent person will go.
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The specifics of this case are irrelevant. You said multiple times that an armed person has no claim to self defense against an unarmed person and that is demonstrably and obviously untrue. The fact that you’re carrying a weapon doesn’t require you to tolerate unlimited violence by someone without a weapon. That’s crazy.
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You are defending someone
Most of the people here are rebutting your general claim that self defense is only available to the unarmed. Those rebuttals don’t constitute support for this woman.
If you are armed you can force them to leave through threats
I am making a general comment on your argument, and not specific to this case. Like most of the arguments directed at you in this thread, My comments should not be construed as support for this woman in this particular case.
You are conflating “threat” and “force”. They are distinct. A “threat” is an attempt to influence the subject’s decision to act, by making them fear a future action. “Force” is a physical action imposed on the subject.
A threat is something intended to convince the subject to decide to act in a particular way. Force is when the subject’s choices are removed, and their body is physically manipulated against their will.
Force can also be a threat, but a threat alone is not force. Holding a knife to your neck and demanding your wallet is force (your neck is being physically manipulated against your will) and a threat (you are being coerced into giving up your wallet).
There are six generalized criteria for defensive force. A person who 1. Reasonably Believes an imperiled person faces a 2. Credible, 3. Criminal, 4. Imminent, 5. Sufficient threat (sufficient = “death or grievous bodily harm”) may use any level of force 6. Necessary to stop that threat.
When you articulate your arguments about this specific case using the above terminology, you will find that your opinion is shared by the overwhelming majority. There is very little support in this thread for her self defense argument.
An armed person theoretically has a greater capacity of force than an unarmed person, but threats made be an unarmed person can certainly justify a forceful response by the armed person.
You are not required to brandish a weapon because this isn’t a thing you should do outside of a movie. Waving around your gun means someone takes it from you.
This is even more laughable with a knife.
I’m not defending anything except my position that your assertion is incorrect. Brandishing a weapon with the intent to scare someone off is illegal in its own right in every jurisdiction I am familiar with in the US. You are giving bad advice and you need to educate yourself before you give what could be interpreted as legal advice.
What is the acceptable level of violence LGBT people must endure before responding? Keep in mind LGBT people are constantly receiving low levels of emotional abuse: dirty looks, mean laugh, cruel comments… So when violence happens, exactly how long should someone like that wait? Would 4 punches have been okay?
Also, have you ever heard of one punch knockout deaths? They do happen, people get into bar fights, someone gets knocked out, falls backward, hits their head, and dies. Being hit and punches can get lethal…
Your logic feels transphobic to me, not genuine thought free of prejudice.
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armed people will never have a self defense claim against an unarmed person
Oh bullshit. 95lb woman against me, a 225lb man? If I were to attack a woman like that you are saying she shouldn’t be able to level the field.
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Go ask a criminal attorney if there’s a self defense claim
If you had ever followed that advice, you wouldn’t be repeating this nonsense. You would have learned the 6 general criteria required for a self defense claim, and that none of those criteria require the defender to be less-well-armed than the attacker.
This subject is too serious for your uninformed opinion. PM me your zip code, and I would be happy to find you a class on the laws regulating self defense.
But you’re making absolute statements and it’s just false.
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This is basically fabrication. For instance around here in WA a woman shooting a man attacking her was deemed self defense because he presented a threat of great bodily harm or death you know actual legal standards. If she didn’t use it her merely having the gun wouldn’t prevent said harm so she got a free pass to ventilate him.
He lived she didn’t go to jail
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You can absolutely get murdered by an unarmed person
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That’s complete bullshit.
How many manslaughter cases have there been where 2 people get in a fist fight and one of them gets brained on the concrete?
To be clear, the claim that it’s legally indefensible may be true, but your life is absolutely in danger in an unarmed fight
So if an MMA fighter starts kicking your ass, you aren’t allowed to use a weapon to defend yourself because they are unarmed?
Armed vs unarmed is not a definitive factor in a self defense case. The criteria are that a defender who 1. reasonably believes they face a 2. credible, 3. criminal, 4. imminent, 5. threat of death or grievous bodily harm, may use any level of force 6. necessary to stop that threat.
Reasonable belief, credible threat, criminal threat, imminent threat, sufficient threat, necessity of force.
An unarmed attacker can, indeed, generate all six criteria required to justify lethal force in self defense.
The jury doesn’t seem to think that happened in this particular case, but it certainly can happen and has happened. Please don’t repeat that nonsense that it can’t.
You know something is up when they state that they are transgender when it bears no meaning to the actual article. This would be the same as “Gay man murdered people” the point is bigotry.
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That’s my point, gender has no relation to violent crimes, bringing it up in the headline is just bigoted
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This might be an important detail to put in the post, but in the headline? It makes no sense past bigotry
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I agree, OP makes it out like it wasn’t an extreme act of violence, even though it did start as self defence.
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it did start as self defence.
Was the mailman armed? If not i can’t really frame stabbing someone with a knife as self-defense.
The real story is “Mentally Ill Person with a History of Knife Crime Stabs Mail Carrier in Fight”
To the people who consider them being trans headline-worthy, “trans person” and “mentally-ill person” are synonyms.
Violently homosexual man brutalizes innocent bystander in gay rage.
You gotta mention that the innocent bystanders are straight, or else conservatives won’t know whether to feel sorry for them or be happy they were attacked.
Innocent God fearing all American red blooded heterosexual bystanders.
Yeah, you hardly ever hear Christian gunman kills X children at school.
I’m opposed to her facing consequences for killing him. If it had been a white woman killing a black postal worker in self defense, we wouldn’t be here. Shed be paraded around like the poster child of the American Fascist Party.
Correct. You would not be defending a cisgender murderer. On the the “right side” gets to do whatever they want.
“I killed him laughing,” she said. “Oh, well. I’ll piss on his grave.”
“I did spit on him because he called me a f—-t,” Cruz’s confession reads. “I called him a dirty monkey. You said hurtful words, so I said hurtful words to you.”
As their dispute escalated, Cruz claimed that Hodges struck her three times before she pulled a knife and stabbed him in self-defense, according to court documents. “I told him, ‘You come to me and I’ll kill you,'” Cruz told investigators. “No motherf—-rs are going to put their hands on me no more.”
Hodges, who lived in the Bronx, reacted to the stabbing with astonishment, saying, “You really stabbed me?” to which Cruz replied, “Yes I did,” court documents state.
“I got in between them — twice,” said Janet Rich, who was in the deli buying coffee when the fight broke out. “There was another woman with dreadlocks [who] said, ‘Don’t do this. You have a good job. Let this go.’”
It’s interesting to see how women generally react using reasoning and deescalation - which is commendable - but also knowing crime statistics against women maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing if men feared that assaulting a woman could end up getting you stabbed.
Too bad she seem quite evil with the whole “killing him laughing” thing - but I’m sure this isn’t going to get twisted into all trans women are dangerous criminals and should be locked up in men’s prisons…
This is so disgusting because she totally deserved to stab him in self defense. Getting hit three times necessitates self defense.
And I, a ciswoman, laugh when shit gets real because I have weird berserker blood or something. I can’t control it, so if I’m going to stab someone in self defense, I would probably be laughing, too.
She could have filmed him and got him fired. You spit on people you get punched. If you are going to start a fight don’t do it by doing something that instantly starts the fight while doing nothing to actually slow down your opponent. She could still have backed away, used pepper spray, used a taser, punched back.
All of these would see him face 99.9% of the consequences instead of him being dead and her life ruined.
You can’t start a fight and claim self care.
He said video showed Hodges hurled slurs at Cruz, and that she only used the pocket knife — which she bought at a dollar store moments before the altercation, prosecutors claimed — after she felt threatened.
Hodges took off his jacket in the video, “the international symbol in New York City for ‘Let’s go, we’re going to fight,’ and rolls up his sleeves and hits her,'” Schuman told the court.
“While he’s still berating her, he called her a f—-t and a t—-y and she spit on him.”
So let me first say, I took that word for word, in the order you see it, from an earlier New York Post article. I hate giving them any attention, but the screenshot of a headline we’re commenting on came from a blurb from the same website, as an ‘update’ to the article I linked. It really shows that ya’ll didn’t actually read anything, and are just commenting on other comments. They were at a bodega, where she allegedly cut in line. That’s what started all this. She was supposed to ‘get him fired’ when he was off duty? You know how hard it is to get a postal worker fired?
So they’re just two people at a bodega. She allegedly cut in line- I can’t see her saying she did, or didn’t, or where there was any reported camera footage. This dude starts screamin and cussin. She spits in his face. He hits her three times, she knifes him with the knife she just bought next door.
The fact that people are jumping to defend a guy hitting a woman for spitting in his face, because it’s “escalating” and disrespectful, but ignoring that it was a response to escalating and disrespectful behavior, is ridiculous. You don’t blame the guy who got knifed for yelling slurs first? You don’t blame the guy for striking her after getting spit in the face? Why is she supposed to quietly and meekly accept this behavior when he can make her feel unsafe?
A man makes me feel unsafe and then hits me, three times! Three! I should absolutely knife him. I probably should’ve knifed him after the first time. (I’m kind of a big wimp so I don’t think I’d be able to knife a guy, but I for sure would be right to defend myself.) And you know what? I’m a dumpy, middle-aged, short white woman. If a guy hits me even once and I knife him in self defense, and then say, “he deserved it,” there are a lot of people who would be agreeing with me.
Spitting on someone is an assault. Insulting someone is not. The two things are not comparable.
You don’t blame the guy for striking her after getting spit in the face?
To be clear, I wouldn’t escalate anything in general, if someone cuts in line or whatever, not worth picking a fight for such silly things. But if you spit to someone in their face, getting punched is something that it’s well within the realm of things you should expect. From an ethical point of view, I probably wouldn’t do either, but in general spitting is what turned this uncivilized event (from both parties) into a fight.
If a guy hits me even once and I knife him in self defense,
Self-defense laws vary a lot across countries. At least where I live, defense has to be motivated and proportional. If someone would slap you - for example - and you stab them, that probably wouldn’t count as self-defense. I would personally disagree with you in that context, and probably a judge would too (at least here).
I don’t like arguing from a legal standpoint, because a legal standpoint is not necessarily a moral one, but where I live, things are different.
Stabbing has always the risk of being fatal. No slur deserves death.
Edit: to expand to that, being motivated and proportional are two principles that I find very moral. I agree that legal and moral are not the same, but in this case I think the law is absolutely aligned with my moral. Stabbing someone for a slap or a slur is completely disproportionate and I would absolutely not consider it justified. Being assaulted and fearing from your life, that is different.
Punching someone also has the risk of being fatal.
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I think if you were all up in someone’s space screaming at them, there’s a certain level of expected spit contact there just from talking, right?
Which is another reason you and I wouldn’t be in this position. Gross!
But I do want to clarify I don’t think she should be able to just like, walk away scot free from this. I just whole-heartedly disagree with people who want her dead. Or who think that fifteen years isn’t a long enough sentence. Fifteen years is a long time. People are way too ready to discard people in this country.
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ITT: propaganda successfully vilifying trans people as a group and idiots gobbling it up
Ask yourself why the news never specifies criminals gender identities unless it’s one of the scapegoats.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
I doubt they framed the dude who chocked the homeless man to death on the subway as a “disgusting human being”
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When you’re being assaulted and have no way of knowing whether they’re going to kill you for being trans (something you know happens with alarming frequency), why would you show remorse for defending yourself against a violent, “pure evil” bigot?
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Upstanding heterosexual cisgendered male citizen forced to take homeless bum’s life in deadly subway altercation.
