The title says it all. Part of what i do now is to convince people to care about their privacy. I know I cannot force people to do anything. And I have a charisma level of -1, if this was an rpg. Like its nonnexistent.

I feel lonely in general because it feels like people make me feel like I’m delusional for caring about protecting my privacy. Maybe there is a support group for that🤣🤣🤣

But anything I can specifically say that works best in planting a seed in people’s mind?

  • rando895@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 day ago

    You could start invading their privacy if convincing them with words doesn’t work.

    Why bother shutting the bathroom door? You’re not doing anything wrong.

    Post family drama on Facebook, whats the problem with that? Everyone has drama?

    Really there is a deeper conversation about power and manipulation through marketing/propaganda. But thats an ever harder topic.

  • onlooker@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    The only time an average person will care about privacy is when it’s taken away from them. Generally speaking, people just don’t care so don’t worry about it too much.

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    They need to have a reason to care. Are they or people close to them in danger if they don’t put effort into increasing their privacy? What steps do they need to take to switch to alternatives, and does what they gain from taking those steps outweigh what they lose? Is your advice oriented around the context of their own lives, or are you telling them to do things because a bunch of people on the internet told you to?

    These questions themselves are also very contextual, especially with different political orientations. For instance, if someone distrusts the government, then their definition of “danger” may include the government reading their conversations, which in this case it is a lot easier to convince people to switch to FOSS or more secure platforms like Signal (and I’ve convinced nearly everyone I know to use it, both conservative and progressive/leftist, because they distrust the government and large tech corporations). Whereas if someone thinks the government is alright, then they won’t give a shit. So I’d say that considering and discussing their political beliefs and making sure they align with valid reasons to make changes is an important step before telling them how they should do things.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Oh truu, all good questions.

      Hmmm maybe not, but i guess for me its part of doing my part to stop big tech from using our info.

      Finding a reason for an average person is hard. Im a minority, so thats a problem. and a lot people i know hate the government

      I think it this day and age, moving to foss options is easier than ever. And im not a tech genius🤣🤣

      Thank so much for raising these points❤️

      • sudoer777@lemmy.ml
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        21 hours ago

        Hmmm maybe not, but i guess for me its part of doing my part to stop big tech from using our info.

        The big question here is how does big tech use our info that makes it important to keep them from having it? Here, political orientation has a large impact on importance, for example:

        Ads: Nobody loves ads, but some people tolerate them more than others. Liberals might see them as a necessary evil to provide services at a good cost. Libertarians might say they have the right to use their own hardware as they please and block them out of convenience. Progressives might say that they promote consumerism, and leftists might go further and say that they are one of the ways capitalists keep their control over society. So since data is used for targeted ads, that’s one area that can be argued based on political orientation.

        Product improvement: Overall depends on their view of the company’s impact on society. Conservatives and leftists both see big tech as it exists currently as morally corrupt, others may see them as providing a useful service. If they think that big tech has a positive influence on society, then they are probably okay with their non-security critical data being used to improve the product, otherwise they might be more likely to want to avoid that happening.

        Finances: Data can be used to personalize prices for large expenses, which is something that threatens everyone. The cost of healthcare, housing, education, and transportation is a major concern across all political orientations (and is why the Democrats lost the election by not doing fucking anything while the Republicans kept telling people that they would fix it by cutting government spending). However, people might also think that there’s nothing they can do about their data being used to make things more expensive or that if they try to resist that then it will cost more for them, so that’s an obstacle that needs to be considered as well.

        Law enforcement: If the person is a target of the Trump administration and knows that, then their data being used against them is one clear motivation if they don’t think it’s too late to do anything. Otherwise, it depends on how much the person trusts the government and current law enforcement.

        So overall, I would consider where they fit in this political categorization and use the reasons that align best with this. Challenging their political stances is also an option but requires a lot of other things to consider and probably won’t work well since a lot of it is rooted in fundamental values that are difficult to change.

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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          14 hours ago

          Makes sense! I havent thought thst deep into it. ❤️❤️ I’ll keep that in mind.

          Thats truu, i didnt think of goods being costing more depending on the person… Good point🙌

          Its so complicated😭😭

          Yeah esp if you are a minority, you should be worried about your privacy now😅

  • butsbutts@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    are these like RL convos, how do you enter a convo about changing their minds about privacy

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Hmm it depends on the day. I do be getting fired up. I usually send them the chart for alteenstives and show them how cool foss is❤️

      But i dont have enough charisma. Gotta roll for that🤣🤣🤣

  • Bronstein_Tardigrade@lemmygrad.ml
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    I think a lot of people confuse internet security and internet privacy. META, Google, M$, and their ilk are highly concerned that your account is not hacked, but then use/sell every aspect of your personal life for profit.

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    The thing is, people by and large don’t want to be convinced. They want their convenience and ease of use, they don’t want to learn a whole new paradigm, least of all one that requires constant vigilance and understanding of the risks. I can’t blame them, they have a lot on their mind, and their existing skill set might not be relevant to privacy issues. People in general resist change and effort. I do. You do too.

    It’s less about you, and more about them. People will only start taking steps when it all clicks for them. What the catalyst will be is impossible to tell, since people are wired differently. All we can do is talk about privacy and advocate for it with people who are willing to have the discussions. Don’t expect to go in and change people’s minds. It’s horribly difficult and you will be disappointed. Instead, think of it as giving people perspectives and starting points for their own journeys. If something happens and they are finally willing to start doing the work, they will at least have some context and words, labels to use. They may even come to you for more. They may not.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Important point to think about. People want comvience and comfort. I think we have gotten to the point where switching to privacy respecting options is easy and painless. Using signal is easy, using lemmy is easy, and even installing linux and other os is easy. Its just getting people to spend the time to do it. Even im moving slow as hell.

      Thats truu, its more about the other people. I think i get distressed because people dont care and I should stop it🤣🤣🤣

      Thank you so much

      • 211@sopuli.xyz
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        3 days ago
        1. “Easy and painless” depends on your point of view, and we here tend to be biased. For example, just a couple of months ago I had to explain to “a normal person” how to make backup copies of a folder to a pen drive. She did not want additional backup software (and I still don’t know if W10 would have had the functionality out-of-the-box). Copypasting files was too difficult. In the end she decided to go with “save as”, which sounded like a horrible idea to me, since she’couldn’t remember how to open anything in Word that wasn’t in the recently used list when starting the software, and she is going to lose track of which file is which at some point. I doubt it would be “easy and painless” for people like her, who are very common outside our little bubble.

        2. Making someone change their opinion is not a sprint, but a marathon. State your opinion openly when relevant, don’t get into an argument, let it brew, mention it again when it comes up, live as you “preach”. That person I mentioned? Happily using Signal with me. Eager(!) to try Linux once W10 support runs out. I’ve told her I’ll install Mint DE on my laptop and loan it to her for unhurried testing and learning this summer while having her familiar backup to lean on if it gets difficult, and to install the same on her own computer when the support runs out, if she still wants me to.

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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          Its definitely a marathon😭😭 i still have more privacy stuff left to do. Including getting a new email account, switching my main laptop to linux, deleting accounts.

          Truu, maybe i have more tech knowledge than i think, so its easy and painless for me🤣 youre right, maybe not for others

          • 211@sopuli.xyz
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            15 hours ago

            It’s a neverending process. 😄 I’ve been at this for some 3-4 years now, and was ready to delete WhatsApp only about 6 months ago, and it’s already left me out of some local groups. Worth it though, and one group moved with me. And just now in the process of hopefully moving from Graphene to PostmarketOS (functional on an OP6) or Ubuntu Touch (to be installed on a FP4), just a matter of deciding which one. In retrospect, I could have skipped this Graphene phase and just gone from Divest to Linux, but I wasn’t ready then.

            IMHO if you try to do things before it feels like “okay this works, next I want to try…”, you’re likely to just get overwhelmed and take a step back.

            • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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              14 hours ago

              Truu it definitely is😭😭 im trying put linux on my surface tablet, its gonna be a hot mess.

              Wait your moving from graphene? Yeah if you dont own a pixel, i guess you have to🙄🙄

              Truu linux is a big step but it will work out! Good luck❤️❤️

              • 211@sopuli.xyz
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                12 hours ago

                Don’t get me wrong, Graphene would still be my choice for privacy & security. But what started out as a quest for privacy has somehow morphed to include FLOSS idealism, even AOSP derivatives feel “too google” now and I feel bad carrying a Pixel.

        • JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz
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          AKA, people have little to no cognitive flexibility. Edit: And we, autistics are convinced we’re incompetent, because we dare to think differently.

      • voracitude@lemmy.world
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        The autistic trait that comes back to bite me most often is the unshakeable confidence that if I just show someone the truth, they’ll believe me.

        This has bounced around in my skull since I read it in a meme here. I hate how true it is.

      • Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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        Using signal is easy,

        Only works if everyone else uses it too which won’t happen.

        using lemmy is easy,

        Figuring out which server to join and app to use may not be so easy. I see confused people on Lemmy asking what instance is best.

        installing linux and other os is easy.

        Installing wasn’t really ever the issue. It’s using them that’s the issue.

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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          Truuu, i have so many friends on signal now, but i guess my circles run different.

          Oh truu, i just looked it up. Im in world and ml🤣🤣 didnt join the sus instances. Im basic🤣

          Is using linux hard in this day and age? I installed mint yesterday and had no problems. Im terrible with technology. I promise ill learn python and kotlin this year. But yeah, it was painless and easy. And i didnt brick my computer🤣

  • overload@sopuli.xyz
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    Re Linux: Do you want to be tech support for these people when they accidentally brick their system or they have a file compatibility issue when using Libre Office and collaborating with someone using Word? Linux is easy for people like us that are interested in tech as a hobby.

    Normal people sit in the paradigm of just wanting their tech to be as user friendly and railroaded as possible.

    I’m sure those people have hobbies, and preferences about those hobbies, that might benefit you if you knew. How would you want them to convince you that, say, changing the oil on your car is actually really quick and easy if you know what to do?

    I don’t mean to be obtuse, this is the reality of trying to onboard people that aren’t fussed about privacy. They’ve generally got their own thing going on and don’t want to dive down a new rabbit hole.

    Edit: For some actual advice: start with your partner and close friends/family.

    Of the friends which you are talking to about it, target the ones which are more likely to already have an existing predisposition to caring about privacy.

    Just get them to use Signal for now. Say that you’re deleting WhatsApp or messenger or whatever it is that you use to communicate with them generally and ask them just to install this new one that is more privacy-respecting.

    If you can get people off of Facebook Messenger or whatsapp as the default messaging app, that is a huge win. People tend to share their most personal secrets in what they assume to be private forums. Most people don’t post that much stuff to Facebook’s wall anyway anymore.

    If the person that you’re speaking to might distrust the government more than Mega-corporations, focus on the fact that the government can access those corporations’ data pretty easily. If the person that you’re trying to convince personally finds musk or Zuckerberg gross, then lean into that.

    Don’t even bother talking to Sarah from accounting at work about privacy.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Good point!! Im actually afraid of bricking my laptop, im going the linux changeover and my backing up all my shit on a hard drive.🤣🤣

      Thats truuu, most people want things to be user friendly. But i think we are at that point tho🤣 maybe im wrong.

      Good point about the oil. I can change the oil in my car because i hate oil on my hands🤣🤣 so yeah, youre right. Just because it can be done, doesnt mean you are gonna do it.🤣🤣

      Yess!! Im trying to get people to try some privacy focused chatting apps! Thats definitely a good idea! I think i wany to chat with my friends but i want them to move to privacy focused platforms! So im super pushy, so thats my bad.

      • overload@sopuli.xyz
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        You can dual-boot if you don’t want to go all in? Not sure about laptop dual boot but that’s what I do on my desktop.

        I’ve had a family member complain about “another chatting app on their phone”, but if you convince them that they can only really contact you there (because YOU are deleting everything else off your phone), they’ll do it and see that it’s absolutely fine.

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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          Nope going all in🤣 want all my space. Maybe with my real laptop, i should leave windows on there with a portion with the orginal stuff that only takes 1/3 of the drive. But i kinda want all 1tb of space.

          I dont really want to use windows anymore at all. I was watching a video in my private tab of my browser and windows decided to install some updates. I lost my spot in my video and forgot what video it was. Extra salt. And all the privacy concerns are a big nono.

          The only problem is my cameras being bricked if i switch to linux because i have a surface tablet.

          But yeah i downloaded a lot of chatting apps to talk to people but its less since im mostly using signal and lemmy. But i still use discord at points.

          • overload@sopuli.xyz
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            Ah yeah that’s a predicament. Do you know what distro you are going to be using? If you haven’t decided, Fedora with GNOME as the DE is a good bet. Otherwise Zorin or Ubuntu, again with GNOME. Apparently that DE is better for devices with touchscreens.

            • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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              Oh they just get bricked. I dont know, something microsoft did to surfaces after surface 4, they cant get them to work with any linux distro. Thats the only reason to keep the cameras for job interviews. But again usb webcams exist. Hmmmm…

              People keep on saying aurora is best option for surface, because everything work except the cameras. Not sure if i need a plug in keyboard. Forgot to ask about that. But the keyboard that comes with the surface should work.

              Truuu, i should check into fedora! Thanks for the advice!!❤️

  • Tenkard@lemmy.ml
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    I just compare it to having a stalker. Imagine being in your bedroom and having someone looking at you from outside the window. Now, would you be ok with it if the person was invisible?

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    If you’re in the US, you could point to the news. Even garden variety libs should be a little nervous about the increasing police state

  • Libb@jlai.lu
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    “You don’t care about privacy? Why not give me your bank login, then”

    More seriously, You don’t have to convince people of anything. Sooner than later some huge leak will happen or anythign more intimate that will still impact them, say, like the story of this dad sending a pic of some intimate part of their sick kid’s to their doctor and being flagged by Google AI and being arrested for sharing child porn. And then they will realize why it mattered to protect our privacy.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      That truu, I’ve recently started my privacy journey, so im slowly switching to alternative to trying to show them to people. Its like a new found interest.

      That article crazyy thoooo😭😭😭 thats wilddd.

      • Libb@jlai.lu
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        That truu, I’ve recently started my privacy journey,

        That’s a great decision, imho.

        I made the same choice a few years ago. Every little step counts. I will never be an expert or feel that safe using digital tech but I quit using many tools and services I realized I can’t trust at all, which is already something. And it all started by one small first step.

        so im slowly switching to alternative to trying to show them to people.

        Showing them is a good idea, preaching them to do what you’re doing is probably not that great an idea. Think about it, when was the last time you sincerely changed your mind because someone was forcing you to listen to them or was harassing you. What most probably happened is that you told more or less politely to funk themselves ;)

        That article

        … is terrifying, imho and it is certainly not the kind of society I want to live in.

        There is also a much older story about Amazon deleting the novel 1984 from the kindle of customers having legally purchased it (they were refunded but still that doesn’t change what happened). This kind of events is what started my journey toward a more privacy and ownership-respecting usage of digital tools. That’s also what helped me switch back to analog wherever it was doable (Amazon can’t delete a printed book from my bookshelves).

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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          Truuu, it feels good to make your data is safe🙌

          I do come off as preachy🤣 its the thing i do when i learn too much information. I also have no charisma🤣 It depemds how much i want to change. I have substance use issues and it took me 4 months to take that one seriously. But yeah, it takes a while to realize people were right 🤣🤣🤣

          Thats wild they can just delete a book. Thats scary😭😭😭 thats why subscrption services are scary for things that should just be broight like books and software😭

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    One thing I love about Germany is that people have this understanding where privacy is fundamental and not something to argue about. Because they know being able to easily identify people leads to disaster. It’s just about a political swing away.

  • DominusOfMegadeus@sh.itjust.works
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    People never want to be convinced of anything that says they should do something differently than how they currently do it. Best you can do is lead by example. Talk about benefits of your way of doing things if they ask, or if it is very relevant to the conversation. Otherwise, don’t broach those topics. To take it a step further, if people start complaining to you about problems, before you offer solutions, ask them if they are just venting, or if they are looking for advice or suggestions. Now that you have your instructions on how to change what you are doing, please follow them to the letter, without deviation ;P

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Truuu, i got gotta focus on my journey.🤣

      Gotta check if they are ready, makes sense.

      Thanks for the advice❤️

    • James R Kirk@startrek.website
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      Well said, I was thinking maybe the entire reason OPs charisma is -1 is because they’re out there trying to convince people to do something instead of just doing their own thing.

      • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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        Oh its always been bad. I work in healthcare amd i cant convince patients to do things but if someone else says it they will do it. Its a skill and charmisa issue. I know its bad🤣🤣🤣 i dont think i can improve my stats, its a locked stat🤣

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    Sadly, people rather have convenience if that means giving up their privacy. Its not a battle worth fight to change people’s mindset

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Truuu!! But good thing its easy to change to foss options nowadays❤️

      But yeah, its not worth it of people dont want to change

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    Start by your own privacy.

    I boarded that train about twenty years ago. I tried the evangelizing route. I failed miserably. Which led me to care for myself first and foremost.

    I started by abandoning Windows. Not of my own volition; I bought a computer that had no OS. Enter Linux. None of my family, friends or acquaintances understood. It was all about the convinience. When my machines started outperforming while outliving theirs, it caused a ripple.

    Then came the usual slew of questions: where can I get a free anti-virus, office, media reader, whatever? That was when I introduced FOSS. After the initial resistance, things just settled into place. LibreOffice works. VLC works. PeaZip works. Thunderbird works. Etc.

    When smartphones became a thing, I started moving as fast as I could towards FOSS. This made things a bit more laughable as “free” android applications are ubiquous. But they fill your phone with junk and ads. While my apps provided me ease of use, safety, security and privacy.

    But when push came to shove, I just refused to join. First I left FBMessenger. I never boarded Whatsapp. I never entered Instagram or any major social networks. I discovered Signal and remained there.

    It’s my way or no way.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
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      Makes sense! I did linux mint this weekend on an old laptop. So i feel more confident in switching over on my real laptop.

      I think we are at the point where we can use foss options and linux for all our needs and they arent hard to use. 🙌🙌 i agree

      Yeppp one day im just gonna drop everyone my signal and move completly over there.🤣

      Thanks so much❤️