I know a lot of Ukrainians…many who were students at the time of the Maiden protests. It had nothing to do with the US. At all. They simply didn’t want their country taken over by Russia again.
Prior to 2014, Ukraine was already moving away from Russian influence. The Yanukovych government actually represented a reversal of policy that went back over 2 decades, since Ukraine first declared its independence from Russia. Once he was ousted, Ukraine went back to the direction it had been heading, before he changed that course. That wasn’t a coup. It was the end of one.
Putin never approved of Ukrainian independence. He was determined to prevent Ukraine from getting closer to Europe, by any means necessary…and Yanukovich was just another attempt to sabotage that relationship. When the Ukrainians realized who he was really working for, they took to the streets in protest.
This wasn’t an attack on Russia, although it was an open rejection of their influence.
And if you actually understood anything about Ukrainian history…you would know that the comparison to Vietnam’s history, is much closer than you’re willing to admit. Ukraine has been occupied by Russia for centuries. Treated as a vassal state, and subjected to horrendous abuses at the hands of the Russian Empire, and later the Soviet Union. The ruling class in Moscow has always viewed Ukrainians as peasants and lesser people.
Why do you think they were so eager to be free, as soon as the Soviet Union collapsed?
Yeah based on your posting I’m not surprised you know Maidan participants and parrot their talking points.
You’re describing the affects of western influence, and a common one at that, dividing a region into camps and luring one to work for the colonial powers against the regional interests. The imperialists empower some groups against others, and in this case they empowered literal white supremacists with the promise that they would become true blue europeans if they only sacrifice their neighbors, and themselves. To argue that a slavic nation is doing the right thing by getting pulled into a feud with it’s neighbors in order to join forces with the imperialist, colonial camp is again the most cracker take you can possibly have on the region.
The only people who wanted to be free from the the USSR were literal banderite fascists who were tired of having to hide their love of pogroms. The quality of life in Ukraine and all of the former Soviet Union plummeted and has never recovered. The best comparison of the Ukrainian leadership post 2014 in the Vietnam context is to the comprador catholic french speaking Vietnamese who hoped to exploit their own relatives to live it up with genocidal fascists and colonizers
It’s pretty weird that you’re talking about Ukraine, while discounting the views of actual Ukrainians in your assessment. All you seem to know is what Ukraine looks like from a Russian perspective.
The majority of Ukrainians want a swift, negotiated end to this war. The data typically disagrees with cracker sentiments but the crackers always act like their position is correct. This is the crux of crackerdom.
The Ukrainians who you are prioritizing are not only a minority of Ukrainians but they are literally neo nazis
You didn’t really read the results of those pills, did you? You just picked one sub-stat to focus on. The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want Russia to leave their country, and give back what they’ve stolen, regardless of how that happens. Fight or negotiate…they want Russia out.
The poll states clearly that the majority of Ukrainians are okay with ceding territory to Russia in exchange for ending the war.
The polls also exclude 10-12% of the population who live in the Eastern parts of Ukraine, and that group is almost always in favor of the pro-Russian choices in any polling, which means the numbers are actually higher than the polling suggests in favor of ending the war and ceding territory
It clearly states that 52% want a quick end to the war…obviously. “OF THAT GROUP”, approximately half are willing to concede territory in order to achieve it. “Of THAT group”, there is a range of answers as to how much territory they’d be willing to give up. Those percentages get smaller and smaller the further you dig into that initial percentage.
As a blanket percentage that includes everyone willing to give up at least some territory… you’re talking approximately one quarter of those polled. One quarter. Not an actual majority.
You’ve shifted the goalposts multiple times. either way, the majority of Ukrainians want the war to end when this polling was done, a significant amount are willing to cede territory, the next numbers in this poll are 10-12% lower than they actually are due to not polling the pro-Russian population in eastern Ukraine, and as time goes on the numbers will get higher because Ukrainians are losing the war, more territory, and entire generations of citizens along with their future. If you are pro Ukrainian you would be agreeing with Ukrainians that the war needs a negotiated peace and in order to do so they will have to give Russia concessions
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I know a lot of Ukrainians…many who were students at the time of the Maiden protests. It had nothing to do with the US. At all. They simply didn’t want their country taken over by Russia again.
Prior to 2014, Ukraine was already moving away from Russian influence. The Yanukovych government actually represented a reversal of policy that went back over 2 decades, since Ukraine first declared its independence from Russia. Once he was ousted, Ukraine went back to the direction it had been heading, before he changed that course. That wasn’t a coup. It was the end of one.
Putin never approved of Ukrainian independence. He was determined to prevent Ukraine from getting closer to Europe, by any means necessary…and Yanukovich was just another attempt to sabotage that relationship. When the Ukrainians realized who he was really working for, they took to the streets in protest.
This wasn’t an attack on Russia, although it was an open rejection of their influence.
And if you actually understood anything about Ukrainian history…you would know that the comparison to Vietnam’s history, is much closer than you’re willing to admit. Ukraine has been occupied by Russia for centuries. Treated as a vassal state, and subjected to horrendous abuses at the hands of the Russian Empire, and later the Soviet Union. The ruling class in Moscow has always viewed Ukrainians as peasants and lesser people.
Why do you think they were so eager to be free, as soon as the Soviet Union collapsed?
Yeah based on your posting I’m not surprised you know Maidan participants and parrot their talking points. You’re describing the affects of western influence, and a common one at that, dividing a region into camps and luring one to work for the colonial powers against the regional interests. The imperialists empower some groups against others, and in this case they empowered literal white supremacists with the promise that they would become true blue europeans if they only sacrifice their neighbors, and themselves. To argue that a slavic nation is doing the right thing by getting pulled into a feud with it’s neighbors in order to join forces with the imperialist, colonial camp is again the most cracker take you can possibly have on the region.
The only people who wanted to be free from the the USSR were literal banderite fascists who were tired of having to hide their love of pogroms. The quality of life in Ukraine and all of the former Soviet Union plummeted and has never recovered. The best comparison of the Ukrainian leadership post 2014 in the Vietnam context is to the comprador catholic french speaking Vietnamese who hoped to exploit their own relatives to live it up with genocidal fascists and colonizers
It’s pretty weird that you’re talking about Ukraine, while discounting the views of actual Ukrainians in your assessment. All you seem to know is what Ukraine looks like from a Russian perspective.
That says a lot.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx
The majority of Ukrainians want a swift, negotiated end to this war. The data typically disagrees with cracker sentiments but the crackers always act like their position is correct. This is the crux of crackerdom.
The Ukrainians who you are prioritizing are not only a minority of Ukrainians but they are literally neo nazis
You didn’t really read the results of those pills, did you? You just picked one sub-stat to focus on. The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want Russia to leave their country, and give back what they’ve stolen, regardless of how that happens. Fight or negotiate…they want Russia out.
The poll states clearly that the majority of Ukrainians are okay with ceding territory to Russia in exchange for ending the war.
The polls also exclude 10-12% of the population who live in the Eastern parts of Ukraine, and that group is almost always in favor of the pro-Russian choices in any polling, which means the numbers are actually higher than the polling suggests in favor of ending the war and ceding territory
You didn’t read it very well, then.
It clearly states that 52% want a quick end to the war…obviously. “OF THAT GROUP”, approximately half are willing to concede territory in order to achieve it. “Of THAT group”, there is a range of answers as to how much territory they’d be willing to give up. Those percentages get smaller and smaller the further you dig into that initial percentage.
As a blanket percentage that includes everyone willing to give up at least some territory… you’re talking approximately one quarter of those polled. One quarter. Not an actual majority.
You’ve shifted the goalposts multiple times. either way, the majority of Ukrainians want the war to end when this polling was done, a significant amount are willing to cede territory, the next numbers in this poll are 10-12% lower than they actually are due to not polling the pro-Russian population in eastern Ukraine, and as time goes on the numbers will get higher because Ukrainians are losing the war, more territory, and entire generations of citizens along with their future. If you are pro Ukrainian you would be agreeing with Ukrainians that the war needs a negotiated peace and in order to do so they will have to give Russia concessions
Russia is breaking way more agreements than any other country.
Yes, including the US.
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lol