Western countries just negotiate with Russia and everyone agrees that Ukraine doesn’t join NATO because doing so destabilizes the entire region.
Joining NATO would destabilize the entire region because… it would force Russia to invade Ukraine even harder?
Have you considered why Ukraine wants to join NATO so fucking badly?
The big sticking point here is NATO … take it off the negotiating table, then you can see where the Russians are at.
Invading Ukraine, like they did in 2014, long before NATO membership was a consideration for Ukraine?
The reason why Russia is so staunchly against Ukraine (or any other countries) joining NATO is because it makes it that much harder to start a landgrab war.
Otherwise, there’s a war being fought with a steady stream of people dying because someone wants to join an exclusive club?
There’s a war being fought with a steady stream of people dying because Russia invaded with the intent to murder Ukrainians and exterminate Ukraine as an independent nation.
Ukraine wanting to join the “Don’t invade me” club is hardly fucking surprising in light of that.
That’s the biggest fuck up off it all. Just holding Crimea was enough for it to be impossible for Ukraine to join NATO, as there may be no disputed territories and they would have never given it up formally.
Putin should’ve backed out and regrouped a lot better and more carefully after his full scale invasion failed miserably. It’s been a nonsense keep going out of principle war for years now and the biggest loser is Russia (it’s hard to even calculate the impact of a lost generation of young men + loss of influence world wide because of how crappy weapons systems turn out to be in real war instead of demonstrations.
Meanwhile there’s an enormous diaspora of Ukrainians growing in many western European countries now and they became de facto part of the club a lot stronger and faster than anyone could have ever imagined before 2022.
Ukraine can be protected without NATO? Like that deal they made where they gave up the nuclear missiles in exchange for security guarantees? Yeah, nice try. Once again you’re defending putin’s imperialism with weak excuses, what a surprise.
A country that is threatening with the use of nuclear missiles is never a stable situation. I don’t think that’s a good argument to avoid protecting vulnerable states from those countries.
You fail to see something very obvious - that criminal might still kill me on a whim, because he feels like it. However, if uncle sam comes and points a loaded gun at the guy at any given time, I’m feeling a lot more safe because the guy might be more angry, but he doesn’t want to die.
What was said in 1997 is irrelevant in 2025 - russia was a different country back then. That was before the second chechen war, the invasion of georgia, the bombing of syria and the war against the ukraine. I’m pretty sure both parties would say something differnt these days.
How about this for a thought
Western countries just negotiate with Russia and everyone agrees that Ukraine doesn’t join NATO because doing so destabilizes the entire region.
Instead everyone wants to shoehorn Ukraine into NATO even if it costs us all the risk of nuclear war.
Ukraine can still be protected and defended by western interests in other ways without involving NATO.
The big sticking point here is NATO … take it off the negotiating table, then you can see where the Russians are at.
Otherwise, there’s a war being fought with a steady stream of people dying because someone wants to join an exclusive club?
Joining NATO would destabilize the entire region because… it would force Russia to invade Ukraine even harder?
Have you considered why Ukraine wants to join NATO so fucking badly?
Invading Ukraine, like they did in 2014, long before NATO membership was a consideration for Ukraine?
The reason why Russia is so staunchly against Ukraine (or any other countries) joining NATO is because it makes it that much harder to start a landgrab war.
There’s a war being fought with a steady stream of people dying because Russia invaded with the intent to murder Ukrainians and exterminate Ukraine as an independent nation.
Ukraine wanting to join the “Don’t invade me” club is hardly fucking surprising in light of that.
Ukraine wants to join NATO specifically to prevent Russia from invading again. What do you not get about that?
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Tbf, if Ukraine joins NATO, that gives NATO a way around the mountains to attack RU, so I can see why that would upset them…
…but yeah if RU wasn’t invading people all the goddamn time this would be a lot less of an issue lmao, RU is their own worst enemy.
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Putin could just not invade countries and nobody would want to join NATO.
Ukraine wasn’t going to join NATO before the war, even after losing the Crimean peninsula.
Ukraine needs security guarantees because they have been invaded twice in a generation. What non-NATO guarantee is going to be acceptable to Ukraine?
That’s the biggest fuck up off it all. Just holding Crimea was enough for it to be impossible for Ukraine to join NATO, as there may be no disputed territories and they would have never given it up formally.
Putin should’ve backed out and regrouped a lot better and more carefully after his full scale invasion failed miserably. It’s been a nonsense keep going out of principle war for years now and the biggest loser is Russia (it’s hard to even calculate the impact of a lost generation of young men + loss of influence world wide because of how crappy weapons systems turn out to be in real war instead of demonstrations.
Meanwhile there’s an enormous diaspora of Ukrainians growing in many western European countries now and they became de facto part of the club a lot stronger and faster than anyone could have ever imagined before 2022.
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Ukraine can be protected without NATO? Like that deal they made where they gave up the nuclear missiles in exchange for security guarantees? Yeah, nice try. Once again you’re defending putin’s imperialism with weak excuses, what a surprise.
Damn I’m really excited for the mental gymnastics you’ll need to explain this lmaoo.
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So, it’s not “destabilizing the region”, it’s making russia mad.
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They have been at war for 3 years. Nothing about the situation is stable.
In fact, letting Ukraine join NATO would bring stability, since that would prevent Putin from invading again.
But Putin doesn’t want that, because Putin wants to invade Ukraine even more.
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A country that is threatening with the use of nuclear missiles is never a stable situation. I don’t think that’s a good argument to avoid protecting vulnerable states from those countries.
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“Proposing that a country join a defence pact only activated in case of an attack on the country is aggravating any potential aggressors”
Jesus Christ.
“Cartels murdering people in your town? Just don’t talk to the cops, that’s how you stay safe.”
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You fail to see something very obvious - that criminal might still kill me on a whim, because he feels like it. However, if uncle sam comes and points a loaded gun at the guy at any given time, I’m feeling a lot more safe because the guy might be more angry, but he doesn’t want to die.
What was said in 1997 is irrelevant in 2025 - russia was a different country back then. That was before the second chechen war, the invasion of georgia, the bombing of syria and the war against the ukraine. I’m pretty sure both parties would say something differnt these days.
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Please explain how you think this has any chance of happening short of literal wizards showing up