This is a rant about how so many apps on many different platforms (TVs, mobile devices, computers, etc…) have decided to not actually show detailed errors any more. Instead, we get something along the lines of:
Oops, somehting went wrong. Please try again later
… and then, well, we get to figure out what just happened and what in the world we need to do about it. And good luck with that, since you have no idea what just failed.
Why software developers?!? Why have you forsaken us?
EDIT 24 hours later: I feel like I need to clarify a few things:
I’ve worked for 8 software companies over 30+ years. I know why putting a DB error into the message users see is a bad idea. I know that makes me uncommon, but I still want more info from these messages.
You all are answering as if there are only two ways this can work: (a) what we have now (which is useless), and (b) a detailed error listing showing a full stack trace. I think the developers could meet me half-way.
What I want is either (a) “Something went wrong on the server, you can’t fix it, but we will” or (b) “Something on your end didn’t work. Check your network or restart the app or do something differently and then try the same thing again”. And if they’re blocking me because I’m using a VPN, fucking say so (but that’s a whole separate thing…)
Some apps do provide enough info so I have a clue what I should do next, and I appreciate the effort they put into helping me. I think what I am really ranting about is I want more developers to take the time to do this instead of reporting all errors with “Oops, try again”. (If the error is in their server, why should I try again?) Give me a hint as to the problem, so I have something to go on.
Cheers y’all. Still love you my techy brothers and sisters.
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Ringtone for when work calls/texts:
Exactly, it’s especially infuriating on newpipe. WHAT went wrong? It’s an error 500 from YouTube (rare, unfixable, try again) or Google changed something and need to wait for a client fix? Or simply Google blacklisted the IP address or put some captcha that prevents playing the video??
I agree that it’s (weirdly) uncommon to be the one saying “please give me more info about the error!”
A simple error code can be endlessly helpful (bonus points if there’s a corresponding support article explaining common codes)
Even if some codes are only useful to internal support, it’s handy to be able to search an error code and see “oh I can just jump straight to submitting a ticket/calling their support” or “oh, this fix might work”
Because the error message would be meaningless for 99% of people. Expected errors are already handled correctly, but unexpected errors like these would say something obscure like “couldn’t read property ‘count’ of undefined”. Very useful
What I hate even more are error codes
Precise, easily searchable codes that describe the problem? What a ball ache!
This person gets it. Thank you.
Not on Windows, no. “This error code could indicate this or that or something”.
Because 99% of the time these errors are caused by something on their end that the user is unable to fix, even on the off chance that they understand the problem in the first place. So there isn’t any need to give you more information than “something went wrong, please wait a minute and/or try again”.
Blanket “99%” statements are unfounded. I have had countless issues I was able to fix through error messages and some without.
Source your claim.
I can’t speak for the other user’s claim, but I’ve worked at Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn, and have written plenty of error messages. When I write a message like these, it’s specifically because the user can’t do anything about it. I’ll log the error to our internal error tracking systems with actual information about it, then give the user a generic message.
If it’s something the user did wrong, and they can fix it, I’ll absolutely give them a message saying that. Usually I won’t even let a user submit a bad request, but sometimes users will bypass frontend restrictions to submit it, so the server always needs to validate it again anyway. The fact that plenty of users won’t even read the message I write is kind of annoying, but at least the users who do read it will know how to fix it.
I’ve tried sending detailed error messages before, and that invariably results in users submitting support tickets and forum posts for things that aren’t helpful. You learn pretty quickly what kind of messages are helpful and what kind aren’t.
I would appreciate the detailed error responses even if the developers don’t think it would be of use to them.
When a project has unexpected downtime, and they do a postmortem explaining exactly what part of their infrastructure failed, what steps they took to resolve it, and how they will prevent it in the future, that is great.
I appreciate transparency. Of course, to expect this from a large corporations is expecting a pig to fly, but detailed error messages are one more step away from “We are the cloud” and one step towards “We are real people providing a service which operates on server infrastructure consisting of…” Its transparent, down-to-earth, and respects people who do want to see behind the scenes.
One company I used even had a white paper explaining their infrastructure as a whole.
This all may not make you more money, but I prefer this to instead treating me with the bare minimum insight into the inner-workings.
I want you to really pay attention to the last paragraph of my previous comment. It’s the most important part. You might like having more information that doesn’t help you, but that comes at the cost of thousands of useless tasks and posts that all have to be manually closed. It’s not only not helpful to give the user detailed error messages in a lot of cases, it’s actively harmful to a business. It doesn’t make any business sense to tell a user that a cache layer host or a db shard is down. As a developer of these kinds of systems, I’m not going to give extra information that you don’t need just to make a few users happy that they get a peek under the hood if it means hurting our support staff.
How is a user sending a support request containing the information: “Site not working. Error message: A surge in requests is overloading the server. Everyone is being ratelimited.” Any different from them just saying “Site not working.”?
If they were going to submit an issue for a problem that is already known, why would the error message significantly change the difficulty of dealing them?
In theory, maybe. In practice, I’ve had a lot of errors in that vein that very much wouldn’t go away, and where made much harder to diagnose by their obtuseness.
Honestly, I even dislike the mindset. Just make a big header with the generic error message and a little one below that gives some details. Having users interested in how your software works is not a bad thing.
OK but then inherent in what you’re saying is also the message, “… and don’t contact us about this, because we don’t want to deal with it” which is also mildly infuriating to me.
Iit’s an internal error that is not handled properly. They don’t want to tell you the exact error message and detailed information around that, because it would expose the internal state of the backend and that would be a security issue. There is really nothing more that they can tell you, except that a developer needs to look at this (and possibly thousands to tens or hundreds of thousands of similar logged errors) and they probably already are.
Maybe then, the message could be, “An internal error has occurred and we’re going to work on fixing it but there’s nothing you can do to fix it yourself right now”. It’s the “Oops” that fries my grits.
If you’re tech-savvy enough to want detailed error messages, you should also be tech-savvy enough to understand the implied message you just typed out. The ‘Oops’ isn’t for you, it’s for the average user.
I do agree, the whole “oops sowwy” with a sad Labrador vibe is a little irritating. But I guess they do it cause it’s a harmless and layman-friendly response.
It’s almost never an internal error. The vast majority of the time it’s vpn blocking or some such bullshit.
LMFAO. I probably have to truncate at least five error log files a week on various vps servers at my company because they fill the SSD and crash the OS. We rent servers we don’t dev them for our cx.
Largest error file I’ve seen so far is 32 GB
Site owners are normally clueless. Site developers normally can’t give a single fuck and systems administrators like me. Get to pick up the pieces and tell them to tell their Deb to fix it and then we pick it up again and tell them to tell their Dev to fix it let me know when you sense a pattern
Are you not rotating your logs with for example logrotate?
To reiterate, they are not my logs. It’s not my server. It’s a server that the customer is renting and not maintaining and we’re not going to purge their data unless they ask not all logs rotate. Mostly error_log files in garbage wp sites
Of course if their servers and whatnot are shit they won’t straight up tell you they are shit.
It’s why modern multiplayer games don’t even show everyone’s latency anymore. It would let players know imperically that their servers are shit.
The “we don’t want to deal with it” part is something you’re attributing to them with no evidence. As a former SRE, I can guarantee you they are dealing with it.
You’re assuming they aren’t already aware of the issue.
Sorry but how does that help me?
How does telling someone about a problem they’re already aware of help you?
When you’re in a restaurant and your server accidentally dumps the entire tray of food in your lap, would you prefer them to apologize or just stare at you because you already know what the problem is. Clearly you requested food to be delivered to your table and it didn’t make it there.
An apology would be nice, but do you really need to explain to the server that you still haven’t received your food? I think they know that
What I’m saying is that when you see one of these messages you should interpret it as “something is wrong on our end, nothing you can or need to do on your end, please hang tight as we’re aware of the issue and working on it”. They don’t give you more info than that because that average person is probably not a dev and doesn’t have any need for more details than that.
But it’s MY Internet, and I want it NOW!!
You’re giving an incredibly large allowance for companies that have continuously calculated exactly how much they can fuck over their customers for more money before we decide to use some other product.
I give my users instructions on how to report an error if they seek assistance. It’s regularly ignored. Instead we get the ubiquitous “Something bad happened … somewhere. HALP!”
“I got an error”
“What did it say?”
“I don’t know, just something went wrong”
“👍”
The why is easy. As others said, the vast majority of error messages are entirely useless for you, the user, because there’s not a single thing you can possibly do to address it. What are you gonna do about a database connection issue, or bad cache, or broken Javascript? Nothing. So don’t worry about it. Besides people are less panicky when they see an oops rather than a stack trace or a cryptic error message.
And don’t worry, people who know how to write up useful support tickets and bug reports know how to do it even when all they can see is an “oops”. Builtin browser dev tools will have information they can use to help the devs.
the vast majority of error messages are entirely useless for you
Hard disagree. Maybe half, at most. And most importantly, if a user can’t do anything about it, what’s the difference between a “error code 487” vs “oops there’s an unspecified error”? What’s the harm in showing an actual error code?
The VAST majority of errors I see are connection issues, or some of my VPN or adblock stuff causing me to be denied access to the website. That’s all stuff I can fix. And it would be a lot faster if I didn’t have to trial-and-error my way to the actual problem first.
See my update/EDIT above. I feel like most of the replies here are on the same track as you but I still think there’s a better way.
This is the only error message I need
Ok, I’ll replace my error pages with a redirect to that
Error messages are a common way for hackers to gain information about a system. Useless error messages are recommended for security.
If you enter your username as Robert’'); DROP TABLE Students;-- giving the error “Oops, something went wrong” is better than “NoSuchTable: ‘Students’ Table doesn’t exist in the database” because now the hacker knows you’re using a database that interprets SQL commands and inputs aren’t being sanitized.
Hacking programs like Burp Suite have functions that spam sites with all kinds of garbage data and uses error messages and delays in response times to highlight potential vulnerabilities.
Security through obscurity is still wack tho
Same logic as “keep it closed source for security”.
This comment belongs on masterhacker
Yeah but most of these errors don’t even give out a uuid that could be used to relate the error to logs to be resolved by someone.
Not that that someone exists anyway. Let’s face it the entire industry is a massive joke and a pile of shit and with AI coming fast and hard soon you won’t even get the privilege of venting to a call center person about it.
You’ll vent to some made-up chatbot named veeblezorp and he will give you an impromptu therapy session about the state of the world. Your computer/tablet/phone/app still won’t work properly and veeblezorp will try to get you through the stages of grief about that.
Just unplug it and don’t plug it back in again. Go for a walk. Play with the dog. Hug your children. Stop buying crap online that scales up infinitely to take new customers (and their dollars) but is forever stuck at the sub-garage startup level when it comes to support.
Even if you don’t buy into this logic, you still have to do it in quite a few places because the security auditors have a line in their checklist about being able to extract any internal information from error pages
So in short it’s used to mask the developers errors?
Users ignore error messages.
I have seen my users request support, proceed to demonstrate the issue they’re having, and click through error messages so fast there isn’t even enough time for me to say “WAIT!” Forget about being able to actually read even one word of the message before it’s dismissed from the screen.
They treat the error messages like they are just an annoying mosquito to be swatted away as quickly as possible. This despite the fact that the whole reason I’m standing behind them is so I can see what it’s going wrong and, you know, read the error messages.
Them:
“What? Oh that? That always happens”
Me:
Grrrrr
Yeah, you’re right, but I still would prefer to see something telling me whether something I did caused the problem or something went wrong in the software / on the server. From this thread, I’m getting that my wishes will not be heard.
So the solution is to remove the error messages? That makes no sense.
I wasn’t saying it was a solution, I was just offering a possible explanation. I understand why someone wouldn’t bother telling the user what’s happening. For my code, I log everything that happens, and tell the user to call me. When I get the call, I check the log and use that to figure out what went wrong.
Distressingly typical user communication:
User: There was an error message.
Me: What did the error say?
User: I don’t know. Something about the problem.
If you remove error codes, all you’ve done is guarantee every interaction is like that.
You’ve got it backwards. Once every interaction is like that, you stop showing error codes.
I have trouble with my colleagues in IT doing the same crap. They come to me to ask me to help them with a problem, and they don’t have the errors!
That’s Windows’ training bearing fruit.
As a developer of many years I hate to tell you sometimes that it’s all the information we have when something breaks also. Most code is a god awful mess. Thankfully I love a good mystery.
I hate the process of debugging, but good god, once you’ve spent 5 hours tracking down the dumbest shit and gotten it to work, it’s better than an orgasm.
Please apply to Crowd Control Productions. You’ll never find a better mystery than current live code that has spaghetti that traces back to 2002 or 2001. The game went live in 2003. There’s one, kinda, server. Technically there are three, but most EvE players only have access to Tranquility, most don’t have access to Singularity, and apparently they have renamed the dev server from Multiplicity to Serinity. Some of us still have access to Serinity because we were able to play test Multiplicity, back in the day.
If it doesn’t tell you what error it is, isn’t an error message, it’s just a message that says that something went wrong. Even a calculator has proper error messages that show you actual information about what is wrong
Look, the majority of the software is on the server end. Even if they gave you a full stack trace, and you understood it, you wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. You want them to give you a way to send in a merge request? I’m sure that would be received here as Google exploiting you for free.
Just fucking tell me when my adblock is causing you to deny me access, or my connection is too weak/slow. I don’t need a fucking full stack trace.
“Hey boss? I got a user here who’s blocking our ads and cussing us out.”
“Oh dear. Better give him whatever he wants.”
Yeah, otherwise you won’t have a user because I’ll find a competitor that is actually workable on my system.
“Majority of software” source your claim.
If you use your computer as a bootloader for Google chrome, maybe. Local software and SASS both benefit from error messages because you cannot assume every error you can do nothing about.
An error about parsing my password and a stack trace? I can possibly deduce to limit the length, remove special characters, or add special characters and try again.
“Something went wrong.” is lazy and nontransparent.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/oopsie-woopsie
Verbose errors were nice
