I dunno, no Democrat ever threatened to make my country the 51st state since the 19th century…
Nah they just rolled out the carpet and set up the barricades to allow it
The US plans some of their invasion/regime change over the course of years if not decades.
I honestly believe that Trump was briefed on some plans to annex Greenland, Canada and Panama, and the fucking buffoon let the cat out of the bag.
I have something like 57% certainty that democrats would eventually start denouncing “fentanyl labs” in Canada and create excuses for invasion.
edit: Worth noting, by the way, that’s it’s a consensus that Canada is more liberal than the US. Having Canada as a 51st state would essentially be handling the Dems a huge advantage for all elections going forward… Gee golly, I wonder whether they might actually root for Don a little bit, there.
Having us as one state - jamming Quebec, BC, Ontario, etc all together would be a recipe for disaster above and beyond all the other disasters involved. It would be like, I don’t know, merging New York and Georgia into one state.
The FLQ alone would instantly revive and start up their bombing campaigns again.
And be real, they would never give us status as states. We’d be Puerto Rico North at best until the violence died down in a century of terrorism and genocide.
Having us as one state - jamming Quebec, BC, Ontario, etc all together would be a recipe for disaster above and beyond all the other disasters involved. It would be like, I don’t know, merging New York and Georgia into one state. The FLQ alone would instantly revive and start up their bombing campaigns again.
The American elites are not above fostering a state of crisis and chaos. The BLM riots happened under Biden’s administration. Biden had deportation camps. Look at current day USA.
These “disasters” are not the deterrent you think it is.
And be real, they would never give us status as states. We’d be Puerto Rico North at best until the violence died down in a century of terrorism and genocide.
Being “real” would be admitting that the US empire is on the verge of collapses. I think decades of continuation is possible, but unlikely. Century? Impossible (at least, for the current statu quo).
The fact that there are so many dislikes proves how propagandized the average American is. “How dare you call both sides the same” Well, they ojectively are pretty much the same with few exceptions.
Especially for non-Usian people, doubly especially for those on the working end of US “diplomacy” - bombs, coups and sanctions come regardless of which US administration, there is literally no difference whatsoever.
I’m no fan of the democrats, but they don’t want to systematically exterminate people like me.
Yeah they’re the same except one of them wants to kill me and my friends
Both of them want to kill you and your friends. One is just stupid/racist enough that they’re willing to do away with your labor power ASAP while the other would rather let their billionaire masters squeeze every penny out of you in debt peonage for the rest of your life (hopefully less than 65 years).
However, I’m far less interested in what they want to do to other gringos than the fact that they’ve been workshopping even worse than this brutality on the rest of us for centuries and y’all were okay with it. You’d continue to be okay with it if there wasn’t a dang Cheeto in the white house or whatever the fuck.
Let me rephrase: one of them is willing to let me and my friends die because they’re more interested in making money than providing for our needs, and one of them wants to shoot us in the fucking heads for being queer. But yeah the ones who hate us for being queer aren’t actually worse than the ones who simply don’t care about us
They also want to shoot you in the head for not being white. But yeah, no worse than the ones who simply don’t care about your wellbeing. In fact, the latter deserves even more of your ire, for some reason
One willing to do the bad thing while the other not willing to do anything about it (and resistant towards any change) is just voting between the Uvalde school shooter and the uvalde cops that prevented parents from going in and saving their children.
Nice ahistorical analogy, but the democrats have proven very capable of literally killing people abroad for the crime of being brown and desiring autonomy, as well as turning a blind eye when cops and the national security apparatus murder people on a whim at home. So forgive me for not seeing them as polar opposites.
Compare the last 6 months to the previous 4 years. You know they’re not.
People with the same goals can disagree on minor implementation details.
We’re talking concentration camp vs no concentration camp here. Child rapist vs no child rapist. International cooperation vs tariff chaos.
yes of course history will remember Biden as a historic, effective, deeply moral president who did the right thing when times were rough, and left behind a lasting legacy of peace and progress.
Who are you crediting with ‘no concentration camp’ here? The party that performatively cried outside of one and then ignored it when they were in power?
Are you SERIOUSLY pretending the democrats aren’t complicit in ‘child rapist’??
Biden couldn’t stop touching and kissing clearly uncomfortable, random kids in front of hundreds of cameras. He’s been accused of rape. Stop pretending we all live in your Marvel movie concept of the world.
Seriously, this is the kind of bullshit that swings so far left it circles back to right.
The goal of this administration is to remove existing government institutions and replace them with far right traditionalist based institutions that the creator of the Heritage Foundation (Paul Weyrich) began writing about ~1999.
I think that we have to look at a whole series of possibilities for bypassing the institutions that are controlled by the enemy. If we expend our energies on fighting on the “turf” they already control, we will probably not accomplish what we hope, and we may spend ourselves to the point of exhaustion. The promising thing about a strategy of separation is that it has more to do with who we are, and what we become, than it does with what the other side is doing and what we are going to do about it.
The people that created the term “cultural marxism,” want you to believe this stupid both sides are essentially the same shit so you’re less resistant to them dismantling the parts of government that people had to fight very hard for. Voters rights, civil rights, and civil liberties have always been under attack by this same group of people. Now you’ve got this dumbass propaganda telling people that since those rights have always been under attack, you might as well just assume it won’t matter if they cease to exist.
You need help.
Apologies for the facts and documented history you don’t want to hear 🤷♀️
I know Project 2025 hasn’t been brought up nonstop over the last year or anything, but if you can somehow imagine a publicly available document laying all this shit out point by point, it might help you understand where I’m coming from.
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They’re not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Hey, seems like a good enough reason to start looking into Marxist-Leninist theory as any! 😉
Democrats seek to regulate said capital. The Overton window is too far right to have much effect.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy. Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
Democrats seek to regulate said capital
No, they aren’t.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
Just wondering which country are you from?
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
So where did you get 1.98?
This is some campist nonsense.
Rather, I’m arguing against “enlightened centrism”. Both sides are not the same at all, there is one party clearly better than the other. Not defending the US in general. But if everyone voted Democrat our problems would be greatly improved.
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party. If everyone voted for the second party, they’d eventually be able to pitch reducing the number of slaves. But they can’t because half the country is Nazis. It’s a dirty game but it’s one worth playing, even if we use protests and other tools as well.
Rather, I’m arguing against “enlightened centrism”
Your instance has been very supportive of ‘enlightened centrism’ when it comes to colonialism vs anti-colonialism. Let’s hope that you are, in fact, opposed to that.
However, the opposition to both of the parties is not a case of ‘enlightened centrism’. They are literally both right-wing genocidal factions of rulers of NATO.
Both sides are not the same at all
In the case of USian ruling factions, the difference is just PR. And, maybe, competence in conducting genocides, invasions, and other colonialist activities.
there is one party clearly better than the other
Considering that the current administration has seemingly been making decisions that have been harmful to NATO’s ability to invade the rest of the world in the long term, it seems that the party that currently holds more power is the better one.
But if everyone voted Democrat our problems would be greatly improved
How?
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party
Both of the parties are for doubling the slaves and for conducting genocides. The currently dominant one seems to be less competent when it comes to achieving those goals.
But they can’t because half the country is Nazis
Much more than that - almost all USians were in favour of invading Iraq, and I find it likely that not much has changed.
Either way, both of those parties are at least almost completely nazi.It’s a dirty game but it’s one worth playing
Why? Electoralist efforts have evidently not achieved much throughout their existence. It’s time to accept reality.
I don’t know what my instance believes, nor do I care.
I wouldn’t argue against opposing both parties, or the US in general. I’m American and I choose to vote for the party that seems substantially better. Voting correctly is important, but not enough.
Voting Republican caused Ukraine to lose its funding. I don’t side with any genocide that NATO commits but don’t forget it also protects billions of people. The game is dirty and imperfect but we should still play it to survive.
Democrat policies reduce wealth inequality, which Republican ones increase it.
All Nazis are Republicans. Few to none are Democrats.
Basically none of your arguments are rooted in truth, even slightly. I doubt you will be convinced of what I’m saying.
Voting correctly is important
Has voting ever produced any sort of serious effect in the US?
Voting Republican caused Ukraine to lose its funding
Meaning that the state of Ukraine will have less of a reason and less of an ability to avoid peace negotiations to stop the bloodshed. This is good.
but don’t forget it also protects billions of people
It literally does the opposite. It’s a colonial empire that is conducting a genocide right now and that has been invading everywhere in the world to keep billions of people in a colonial yoke. It only defends colonial metropoles and settler-colonies from justice.
Furthermore, at most, it ‘protects’ about a billion of people, and not ‘billions’.All Nazis are Republicans. Few to none are Democrats
They are almost all nazis. Even if one cares about electoralism, almost all Dems who could voted against reduction of military support for Pissrael.
It’s not really arguable that at least almost all Dems are in favour of genocides and invasions - like the ones into Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan.Basically none of your arguments are rooted in truth, even slightly
Except for all of them.
Notably, you couldn’t even provide examples of non-nazi Dems, and lied about NATO protecting billions of people and keep lying about voting being important despite having nothing to show for it.
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party.
Then you’re a fucking slavery-defending piece of shit who John Brown would have rightfully shot. You don’t have to support slavery at all, you know. You could even say “Slavery is wrong, full stop.” And then go on to do whatever is in your power to tear down any group that advocates for that grotesque abuse and denial of even the most basic human decency. But instead you insist on carrying bucket after bucket after bucket of water for the fucking slavers who are blatantly grifting you with their detestable bullshit of “at least I’m not that bad” as they point at another fucking slaver.
You people are so brainwashed into this absurd binary thinking it is genuinely shocking to me the atrocious shit that squirts out of your mouths that you think is fucking reasonable!
Octagon9561:
proves how propagandized the average American is
PastaFARRian:
✅
Ok, explain how Democrats support Nazis that attempted a coup?
They didnt put their leader or any of the oganizers in prison for attempting a coup.
They did. They were all pardoned by Trump. Trump would have been sent to prison if he didn’t win the election. Our Democracy is working, it reflects the idiocy of over half our population who voted for everyone to jump off a cliff.
When I walk around, over half the people I talk to support Trump. The other half is actively fighting against it. That’s not support. We’re merely losing.
Trump would have been sent to prison if he didn’t win the election.
Trump would never have had the chance if Biden elected an AG who didn’t spend 4 years fucking around.
The other half is actively fighting against it
Its a shame the democrats dont represent those people and chose not to dismantle Trump’s ICE and instead tried to work with republicans.
Yes. We’re losing, and fucking badly.
Ukraine
Democrats want to keep funding for Ukraine. Republicans want to remove it. Can you be more specific?
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet
“America is one party state. However in the typical American exuberance, they have two of them”
We have to have two, to keep the masses fighting, thinking one will bring change the other can’t. It takes the eye off the ball from the oligarchs, industrial war machine, the three rogue letter spy agencies, and most of all the Zionist influence. Brain-dead voters will scream across the isle at each other, “but my candidate is slightly better than your candidate!” Logic has left the room.
And that stuff about abortion shouldn’t even be there after they didn’t do anything for it.
Really the only thing that needs to be put in the “Democrats only” section is: Lip Service. It sums up every issue they are supposedly “better” on.
Last election the uncomitted wanted basically only lip servce but didn’t get even that.
the rights were appealed under genocide Joe
… By the Supreme Court Trump packed?
After the dems didn’t codify it in law even though they had control
Don’t remember the last time the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse and deporting them to war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
This reeks of fucking shitpost right-wing propaganda.
Edit: here come all the “but the US/CIA did all this fucked up stuff to other countries under Dems, too!”
JFC, the current “president” who is GOP literally yells about wanting to deport/arrest political opponents, censor TV personalities (e.g. Colbert, Fallon, etc), openly calls to suppress political opposition in voting, openly supports ignoring the courts when they interfere with his blatantly unconstitutional actions, etc etc .
Yes, the Dems aren’t fucking innocent, but to pretend they’re the same as a party that’s openly trying to “take back the Nazi word” is fucking insane.
lmfao you americans are ignorant of your own history. do you honestly think ICE disappeared when Biden was in power? no it’s because people like Harris and their bootlickers like you were fine with it when the Top Cop was doing it, they were deporting in record numbers. i guess the black sites also disappeared too, right? typical american arrogance unable to see beyond party affiliation, they are all the same demon to us non-americans, the dems are just better at hiding it. you are the right winger_
Off the top off my head the national guard during the george floyd protest that got called in by tim walz. Even trump was “impressed”
Yes, because those circumstances were completely the same as what’s going on now.
And that makes it acceptable?
People had literally burned down police stations and mass looting was occurring. Their police force was completely overrun. Don’t act like it was remotely the same thing.
I have several friends in Minneapolis that are very progressive. There were tons of people who were legit scared during periods of that for numerous reasons. It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
if it isn’t acceptable it isn’t acceptable period. “this was the only way” literally means that you think it was acceptable.
I put it in quotes because I wasn’t meaning it to be so exact.
But whatever, I’m done arguing with enlightened centrists.
So you do think the kidnapping off the streets into unmarked vans by the military was somewhat acceptable when the democrats called for it? At least have the gut to come out and say it
Obama has the record for deportations
the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse
The Posse Comitatus Act is what generally prevents military from “black bagging US residents” and leaves that job to police.
Texas was the first state to allow for the national guard to assist in immigration efforts back in 2021. Democrats did nothing to stop, delay or prevent the expansion of those powers which were further pushed and nationalized in 2025.
The other loophole is invoking the insurrection act. While Biden did not involve it it was repeatedly threatened during the Gaza war protests, however the protests never got too riotous for the Dems to risk damaging their image and the local police were perfectly capable of documenting and black bagging people for it.
The cases of Kahlil and Mahdawi where Trump attended to deport individuals participating in those protests was made possible by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. That specific bill was introduced by the Democrats, passed the Democratic majority House and Senate, Vetoed by Democratic president Truman before being overridden by the house/Senate.
You are correct that they are “not the same”, but stating that the shield of your enemy is your friend, just because it isn’t a sword is fucking insane.
The problem is that both parties are right wings, only one somewhat more extreme. Both defends the rights of big corporations, billonairs and less or nothing those of the rest of the people. Public services, labor rights and even basic rights, like health and education are a bad joke in the US and only available if you have money. Now with Trump it goes even worse.
They’re not the same. The Dems stand back and shake their fist/wring their hands when the Repubs have power and run roughshod over them. Then when the Dems have power they allow their efforts to be thwarted by the Repubs and gesture helplessly when in fact they could just push things through themselves.
Also the DNC is a malfunctioning toilet that costs elections, implying that they think it’s better to have a pro-establishment Repub in power than a Dem maverick.
deleted by creator
Yeah, wouldn’t want to consume any true, but politically inconvenient posts
/s
“Hostility to Russia, Iran, and China”? This reeks of Russian propaganda.
I couldn’t agree more. Also:
Except MAGA is not neoliberalism unless we think tariffs are now “free trade”. I get the point that neither party will wield power against capitalism, but they still use their power differently.
Biden also implemented tariffs to China tho.
Neoliberalism shouldn’t be seen as a doctrine but as a stage of capitalism, in which policies are shaped by the current context, with the intention of mantaining the current status quo. Free trade made sense for imperialist core countries because its industries were much ahead than the rest of the world, thus free trade made it easier to conquer international markets. Now that China has caught up, free trade fundamentalism is no longer the correct strategy.
but they still use their power differently.
Well…Do they though? On that pesky genocide (sorry I forgot–lets not call it ‘genocide’, right, that makes dems queasy-- how about we just say some people seem to have dropped dead), Bidens pretend “push back” and “negotiations” and “red lines” and “plans to build a dock to get food in and then hand it to the Israelis just like every single other land border crossing” all show that the dem centrists are simply mercenaries paid by zionists. mercenaries who take the time to put up some theatre for their evil so people dont have to acknowledge it, but the exact same outcomes happen either way. Most of the deaths and most of the building demolitions happened under Biden. When you and I start trying to parse if it was slightly faster under Trump, aren’t we missing the point?
We lost Roe under Biden, who famously never supported a womans right to choose until right before he got tapped to be VP. Strange coincidence?
Appointing Merrick Garland as AG and then pretending to be powerless while Garland proceeded to lean right and sit on his hands for 4 entire years is another example. As is cracking down on free speech. And what did Biden do in the wake of all the police murders that the defund and reallocate movement brought to his door? He said explicitly that he didnt agree with the massive movement on the left, and shut it down, actually increasing police funding as an extra “eff you” to the dem voters. Same as a republican would. Wheres this imagined difference?
And Biden famously told rooms full of rich donors at the end of Trumps term that “nothing would fundamentally change” (from Trump’s first term) under him. This emncapsulates this whole discussion perfectly. Biden swearing to the rich that nothing will change, while pretending to run on change.
This is the same Biden who shut down a rail strike, and then slowly over time negotiated a tiny fraction of what the strikers wanted, and then called it a victory on their behalf-- and then had the effing gall to walk a picket line for a photo op so his surrogates could trumpet how union-friendly he was. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions
Same Biden who during his term bragged about being harder on immigration than Trump ever had been-- and wore it like a badge of honor that he’d “closed the southern border”. https://jacobin.com/2024/06/biden-asylum-executive-order-border
Today centrist dems wont even admit there was ever any problem. So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
My brother in Christ, you’re not talking to a liberal here.
Hrm I see you are correct. My bad, sorry.
Yeah you’re right, calling it “neoliberalism” at this point is questionable. They’re also blocking renewable energy businesses.
The center section is too small and should take up 95% of the total area.
Democrats
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Retain marriage rights for gay couples.
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Expand legality of recreational drugs.
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Free food for schoolchildren.
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Tax credits for families with children.
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Subsidized for free childcare.
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Expand electric car charging nationally.
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Subsidize sustainable fuel sources.
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Fact based education standards.
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Stop racism in policing.
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Expanded healthcare subsidies.
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Preserve democracy.
Republicans
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Being gay or trans should be illegal.
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White supremacy is great!
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Christianity as national religion.
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Privatize the post office and weather service.
*Eliminate the EPA, Department of Education.
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Defund IRS.
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Disenfranchise nonwhites and women.
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Antivax agenda.
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Expand fossil fuel use.
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Eliminate worker safety laws.
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Eliminate collective bargaining and union rights.
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Defunding science research.
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Deregulate crypto.
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No regulations on AI.
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No recognition of child’s educational or bodily autonomy rights.
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Eliminate hate crime laws except for straight white men.
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End democracy, install fascist dictatorship.
But yeah, they are totally the same, right guys? RIGHT!?!
Fact based education standards.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Stop racism in policing
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
Expanded healthcare subsidies
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve democracy
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
That’s a right thing, not a left thing.
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
A lot of left leaning places pushed consent decrees, for example:
https://www.chicagopolice.org/community-policing-group/consent-decree/
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
most people vote for the status quo
Not even getting into the whole voter participaton thing here. I’m just curious does that mean you consider Trump the status quo? Because he won the popular vote in the most recent election. Because if so i agree. Trump is business as usual for the US. Just going mask off. Just surprised to see a liberal admit as much.
13·6 days agoReminder that lemmy.world users cannot see lemmygrad users. ChonkyOwlbear is never going to respond, they cannot see your comment.
lmaooo i wish i couldnt see them too that’s not fair
I will pretend to be outraged on their behalf. “You filthy tankie!”
omg :( Me not filthy me take shower like every day. So mean.
I think you dropped this:
Democrats & Republicans
- Bombed kids
- Tortured innocent people
- Increased the surveillance state
- Took money from the poor and working class, and gave it to their rich friends
- Spent billions on wars, while claiming that they couldn’t afford to fix our healthcare or housing problems
- Boasted about deporting more people than Republicans
- Backed a Genocide
Wait, where does this not apply to Republicans?
Who said it doesn’t?
The list did. You’re appending to a list.
That’s fair. I updated it to say both. I phrased it that way in response to ChonkyOwlBear’s implication that the Democrats were the good guys
You kinda implied it by titling it “Democrats:”
You’ve certainly whitewashed Dems quite a lot. You’re fundamentally not wrong though. As bad as the Dems are, and they are very bad, MAGA is undeniably worse. If we had some other electoral system, we could safely explore other options. But we don’t. We have FPTP, which makes it a binary choice between bad and worse.
And worse is just so, so much worse. That doesn’t make bad good, but it’s still a binary choice. You’d have to be evil or stupid to try to muddy the waters so that bad seems close enough to worse that people don’t feel the urgency of choosing bad to prevent worse.
Dems can be convinced to try other election systems besides FPTP because they fundamentally believe in democracy. From my perspective, fixing things without violence is still an option with Dems. It isn’t with Republicans.
I’m hoping Musk gets some momentum with his third party. Either it splits the Republican vote and slows down this freefall into fascism, or he dumps tons of resources into promoting some variety of RCV. Either way, that’s a net benefit in my eyes.
Either you’re stupid or you’re lying.
Where’s the lie?
Literally fucking half of the shit you attribute to democrats.
Stop racism in policing.
Start here. This is a fucking lie and you’re practically a nazi for whitewashing them
Its not a lie. The legal progress towards this has come from Democrats. Yeah, it’s not enough and it’s been too long coming. Still, look at which states passed laws on chokeholds and which states passed laws allowing people to run over protesters, then tell me there is no difference in the parties.
You’re too easily impressed with the most superficial bullshit possible. The difference you highlighted is purely symbolic on both sides. As if cops are restrained by the law in the first place. Both parties have the exact same policy on policing and your ‘good guys’ are almost exclusively the ones in charge of the cities that actually run those police departments. All they do is give them more funding. And to confound people like you they engage in ‘liberal box checking’ where they ‘do something’ that changes absolutely nothing structurally. And then you turn around and defend these murderers like they’re the good guys. You’re a boob.
Not allowing choke holds isn’t superficial. Body cams aren’t superficial. They cut down on police use of force and citizen complaints. They also cost money. Better trained police costs money. Sending out social workers with police on domestic calls costs money ,and makes a huge difference in the quality of policing.
The only substantial reduction in policing cost is cutting back on the drug war and most left leaning states are doing that. (Reducing numbers of police would do it but most states have similar per capita number of police as Europe).
There is no doubt we have a long way to go on police reform, but to say there has been no progress simply isn’t true.
I’m sorry but you’re extremely too credulous and unthinking.
I already explained why and how bans on chokeholds are superficial. Are your senses so dull that you didn’t notice or are you being deliberately dishonest and lazy by not addressing it?
Body cams are even more glaring an example. It’s extremely fucking common knowledge that they turn them off whenever they want. Do you think you’re being strategic by ignoring that fact? Because the effect in reality is it makes you sound like an idiot. Your entire premise is undermined.
You just straight up have no idea what’s happening in the world around you.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html
“More training costs money”
Well, Democrats are the less evil choice, but all this is peanuts compared to EU social standard, I see here in Spain often US tourists which thinks they are in the future, IN SPAIN, with the rights, services and the freedom people has. Even with the US Democrates, it’s compared like the EU fifty years ago.
Those memes are just contributing to the issue of young people skipping the elections, and then complaining about our leaders being stupid
Well, then maybe the Democrats should fix that, by putting out candidates that young people actually want to vote for.
There are too little young voters to make it a viable strategy for either side
Based on that logic, it sounds like there are too few young voters to worry about memes stopping them from voting.
No, even the US has more parties than only those two. In Spain we also had a two party system a lot of years ago, but this changed when the people begone to vote also for other parties than those two, with this we have now several different parties, that makes that there have to create aliances to obtain the mayority do be able to govern, so corresponding more on the reallity of the needs of the people, out of this black and white scheme (or better bright and dark grey). In the US is needed that also enter left wing parties, which represent the basic rights of the people, which currently don’t exist, because they are “anti-american communists”, this is the mantra with which they create the fear in the people to vote it.
Exactly! The fascists want people to think there’s no good choice. Apathy helps them take control.
both can be true at the same time.
Could be, but isn’t.
I wouldnt say a party of genocide supporters who love to kick progressives in the face and dont seem to give 2 shites what their voters want and need, and who have a wildly eroding base and 28% approval doesnt qualify as a:
good choice
But I guess if thats what you think I’m not going to change your mind.
There’s only two choices under the current system and the other one is kidnapping people to put in concentration camps right now. The only chance to change the current system without open armed conflict is the Democrats.
I think its time to start looking past democrats as possible agents of change. Justice delayed is justice denied, and the AIPAC centrists are firmly in control and not about to change anything. Rallying behind them just guarantees more loss, at the cost of enabling their corruption. Their base has already left to the point that they cant win anything. They have a 28% approval rating.
-
The uni-party trash system.
At least Democrats want to slowly slide us into a monarchy. MAGA wants it NOW!
What a country…
*3rd world shithole country
That’s an insult to all 3rd world shithole countries. At least they’re trying.
do you want cancer to kill you now or do chemo and live for another 20 years?
You don’t have to agree with everything, but there’s a lot of truth in this diagram. Both are serving AIPAC, both don’t care about woking class, both want to collapse the US with infinite military spending,…
Oh thanks for the red arrow and explanation, I would never have figured out this cuneiform riddle otherwise.
And thanks for putting Venn Diagram at the top, I never would’ve known if it wasn’t there!
“The United States, too, has a single party system. But in typical American extravagance they have two of them.”
DNC is a huge problem with America as was Biden/Garland. They need/needed Trump to not fall out of a window, or be in military jail, in order for the most warmongering neocon DNC candidates to ensure warmongering. After Oct 7th, DNC’s Israel first “job is to gaslight the left into supporting Israel”, meant ensuring Trump’s win, and today, have their elected Zionist supremacists, repeat attacks of communism on Mamdani.
On global warming, forcing a proxy war on Russia, not only enriches domestic oil companies to fund climate denial. pushing global diesel (home heating fuel same fraction) refining capacity to limit, with massive emissions from war, it also means no cooperation with Russia possible on global warming. It is simply impossible to prioritize human sustainability, if voters are made to support war, while struggling with the economic collapse directly accelerated by it, not to mention cultural divisiveness issues (not DNC/Biden fault).
The US needs either a military coup, or candidates/party that will remove citizenship and assets of Zionist oligarchy influencing US rulership. If money is speech, then money is terrorism.
Change my mind
Capitalism is a tool to maximize profit. Whoever thought it was a good idea to let capitalism have influence on laws so that they can maximize its profit was a big fool.
What do you expect? Capitalism, a tool, has by definition no morale. Let it decide politics to increase profit and you end up with that kind of shit society we have today.
Don’t blame the hammer, when you hit your thumb. Also, don’t let the hammer decide where to make the biggest dent.
Can we please start again focusing on the people? Without people there is no society, and there is no market to increase profits.
Start using capitalism and free markets like a tool. Want more renewable and clean energy? Make rules and see the magic of capitalism in making the best out of it.
Instead we let capitalism decide what should be done next and suffer the consequences. It’s as easy as that.
Unfortunately capitalism not only create the rules, they also decide what is news and influence societies views. And that’s why OPs picture is as it is.
Fuck socialism, am I right guys?!
I agree with this 100%.
Capitalism is exceptional at finding ways to provide value when there is a new market. The issue comes when capital gets accumulated and concentrated in the hands of a few.
We’ve seen it dozens of times throughout history where a healthy merchant class with lots of opportunity for upwards mobility ends up in an oligarchy as the market becomes saturated then monopolies, duopolies, and cabals (guilds) form.
The state needs to use the “P” and “L” in PESTEL forces (Political, Economical, Social, Technological, Environmental, Legal) that businesses (from single to large multinational) to identify new markets that need investment.
An examples would be new clean renewable electricity and one way of giving preferrence to this green energy by minimally taxing profts on this energy sold in the national market or international market via grid-interconnect networks (“Gridternets” if you will) with a clear plan to increase the tax to a normalised amount slowly overtime as the green share of the market approaches 100%.
It also has to be used to more aggressively dissuade markets that are more harmful than good now. An example of this is dirty power.
Coal, Oil, and Gas have done wonders for increasing people’s quality of life because they unlocked a new energy density previously unattainable. Now we have alternatives that are by every metric better; more efficient and less polluting.
Therefore, these industries need to be taxed out of existence by using a logarithmic energy carbon tax that keeps increasing year on year. Corruption needs to be rooted out like a weed as much as possible using a politically independent organ of the state to keep it healthy.
Then there’s markets that are stagnant in some state of capture: crumbling infrastructure, food retailer hypermarkets, etc. Windfall suprise taxes on incumbents and grants / zero interest loans for new competitors would reignight competition in those markets and the additional tax revenue can be used to fix the crumbling infrastructure these markets rely on.
And finally, I’d like to see a strong preference for co-operatives where ownership in a free market is much more evenly distributed by making them the least taxed commercial entities with businesses that have a higher concentration of ownership are taxed more through some sort of profit tax multiplier.
It’s much harder for a business to act in a pure profit motive to the detriment of society if the employees have more ownership as it allows morality to be expressed through political power within this business. These employees also then benefit from the profit share as well which gives stability and upward mobility in exchange for their labour.
There, that’s three proposals that could help towards decarbonisation, investing in underfunded infrastructure, and reducing inequality.
I am not a policy expert and there’s bound to be problems with each of those proposals that I haven’t thought of, but we have so much more to gain by working cooperatively together to build a system that aims to better humanity as a whole by using the best tools correctly and safety.
Until we reach an energy density which unlocks technology that enables things like a resourceless economy (a la Star Trek luxury space communism), we’re stuck with the tools of money and capital as the ways to transfer value.
I personally can’t wait for the day where “reputation” rather than money becomes the currency of society, I am willing to work with the tools we have right now to build that future, and I have faith that others are willing to build it with me.
Yes, definitely, but I think you mean an exponential energy tax law, not a logarithmic one.
Yes, correct I do. Engineer brain working in dBs constantly.
US Democracy = Vote Far Rights or Fascists to combat this terrible Comunism, wearing shirts in Stars and Stripes design. Neo-liberal feudalism
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I fucking hope, but we already seen that at 1st Trump term and after Biden was elected entire EU again got back to licking US boot, including something as unbelivable as fully allowing nordstream sabotage.
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It don’t though, it just rises the price of energy because the gas still flows, even more than before, just from USA, Norway and yes, sill Russia, even more of it, but through middlemen. The sabotage also caused significant ecological catastrophe in the Baltic.
About the sabotage itself you have three versions available:
- Truth, that USA bombed it, possibly with participation of Norway (note above paragraph, curiously the very same countries that gained the most on it, qui bono, eh?)
- USA version, where Ukraine did it, despite lacking means
- Official German/EU version, that is no version, because both above versions means that Germany is either vassal (ver1) or war ally (ver2) of country which attacked Germany in a biggest peacetime sabotage in German history.
Didn’t Biden basically announce the US was gonna do it before it happened?
Yup, and immediately after Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski, closely related to atlanticist circles, thanked USA for that.
Isn’t he married to Anne Applebaum?
Yes, as i mentioned, closely related to atlanticist circles.
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libs be believing dem politicans lip service when they never do anything about it, but the one time their politician says something and actually does it, they don’t believe it.
When you put it that way, it is pretty unbelievable that a US politician would follow through on a promise 🤔
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Its funny when Eurobros pretend they’re not US lackeys.
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He says that because you weren’t paying as much tribute as he would like, which is why he ordered you to increase military spending and y’all went and did it, and then had Mark Rutte kiss his ass in appreciation. 😂
Bullshit. German politics is riddled with the same talking points as the US. Just today i read a german article talking about a “german roe v wade”
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In seiner Stellungnahme gegenüber „t-online.de“ führte Reimer weiter aus, dass er Brosius-Gersdorf, deren Wahl vor einer Woche aufgrund mangelnder Unterstützung innerhalb der Unionsfraktion ausgesetzt worden war, als Aktivistin wahrnehme, „die über eine Neuinterpretation des Grundgesetzes ein deutsches ,Roe v. Wade‘ erreichen will“. Darin sehe er einen „Bruch mit der gesamten bisherigen Rechtsprechung des Bundesverfassungsgerichts zu Art. 2 Abs. 2 GG“. Jener Artikel besagt: „Jeder hat das Recht auf Leben und körperliche Unversehrtheit. Die Freiheit der Person ist unverletzlich. In diese Rechte darf nur auf Grund eines Gesetzes eingegriffen werden.“
Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”.
What?
I doubt that US extortion will be reversed in any future DNC election victory. Only antagonism, and resulting colapse of US, which has yet to be manifested, will result in reversal.
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You literally just said that it was because of Republicans that the EU soured on the US and now you’re telling me that in the EU you don’t look at which party is in charge but at the US as a whole. Do you not see how these statements are contradictory?
No, that one belongs in the shared space too. It was Biden who literally bombed the infrastructure that made it possible for Germany to meet its energy needs without reliance on buying US oil/lng. Who froze all foreign assets that belonged to Afghanistan, essentially stealing billions of dollars that belonged to the Afghani people? Biden. Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
From 3 years ago:
“With Russia losing access to its foreign currency reserves, a message has been sent to all countries that they can’t count on these money stashes to actually be theirs in the event of tension. As such, it may make less and less sense for global reserve managers to hold dollars for safety, given that they could be taken away right when they’re most needed. Russia isn’t the first country to get this lesson in recent months. The Biden administration’s move to seize Afghanistan’s cash assets and prevent their access by the Taliban was another recent signal that reserves can be frozen.”
That was all thanks to the Democrats during the Biden regime. Trump is putting as many nails into that coffin as he can, but we shouldn’t pretend Republicans are the only ones responsible for showing the world that the dollar is dangerous and the US cannot be trusted.
Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
So you condone genocide as long as it’s done by “communists”. got it.
What genocide and what communists?
- Noam Chomsky: Russia is fighting more humanely than the US did in Iraq
- Russians Welcomed as Liberators in Many Eastern Ukrainian Cities Contrary to Western Media Depictions
- UN report on 2014-16 killings in Ukraine highlights “rampant impunity”
- U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
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Then I guess Chomsky and the UN OHCHR are Russian trolls as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists
How do you not know that Russia hasn’t been communist for 33 years?
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European here and before this last Trump term nobody cared about the US, nor knew what people did over there.
I’m also European and this is bullshit lmao
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Europeans may be a bit slow on the uptake, considering much of Europe is still imperial core and it’s all still the global north, but just because European liberals have been struggling to let go of the propaganda that the U.S. is a benevolent force for “order” in the world doesn’t mean that it is suddenly Trump alone that has irrevocably damaged U.S. soft power as well as a positive image of the U.S. in Europe.
and the nonsense of vaccines and Medicare
More examples of issues that were major in the “discourse” under Biden (and earlier). Come on.
Some people and companies are actively seeking alternatives to American products, we are talking about an European tech stack for the first time, a multi billion program just started to replace US in defence, there are funds specifically designed to attract American scientists, the EU is coming for startups too, and intense chats with Canada, China and others try to replace the US market.
And a lot of this takes longer planning than just the 6 months Trump has been in office again. You may not have been aware of it, but many were (I may not be a European, but I have been speaking with plenty of them especially since February of '22). The U.S. has been advertising the fact that its is tightening its leash on its vassals (you Europeans) for a while now, which in turn is unintentional but unconcealable admission that its empire is struggling. Those with eyes to see it, and there are many, most certainly have been watching since long before Trump. I won’t argue that Trump hasn’t ramped it up in terms of how blatant it is with his overt buffoonery and open fascism (as opposed to the Democrat’s false pretense of not being fascist), but to say it’s something that the Democrats do not share in, or haven’t deeply contributed to just as Trump has, well you’re burying your head in the sand.
I honestly don’t mean offense by this because it is so heavily dependent on what you hear in your MSM, but you and those who think this is new are slow on the uptake when compared to Europeans who closely follow this sort of thing, and Europe on the whole considering its relationship to US imperialism is going to be slow on the uptake compared to the rest of the world. And if we’re talking about the rest of the world beyond Europe already knowing these things, well let me just say: BRICS+. But honestly, if you think that even European leaders didn’t take a major fucking lesson from the blowing up of Nordstream, you’re… well, I guess just living under the same rock most of the population who gets their news from major outlets are living under - still doesn’t change the fact that the absolute dismantling of U.S. soft power and power projection (as “defenders” or as a country with whom deals and promises will be kept) is 100% a bipartisan project.
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One characteristic of the European politics is that it’s slow. Painfully slow.
The glacial pace of European politics helps prove my point. The fact that the pace is slightly quickening may or may not be because of Trump - like I said, I certainly wouldn’t argue against his undeniable increasing of the already rapidly deteriorating global image of the US as being trustworthy, but the whole point is that that deterioration was already happening when he got into office. Your original position is that it was not, that the Europeans feeling that the US cannot be trusted anymore and that the image of the dollar’s supremacy was waning, that all of that rests entirely on the shoulder of the Republicans when that is just demonstrably not true.
That said, you are free to think that with Biden it was all the same (or even worse).
You’re shifting the goalposts a bit there, since I never claimed it was “the same” only that it was already clearly well underway, which I have maintained throughout. Yes, I am free to recognize the objective reality of the situation, just as you are free to, for whatever odd reason, push against it to mistakenly insist that Trump is some sudden and unique outlier in the collapse of US image and power projection when that has demonstrably been going on since before him and will continue after, even if he is ramping up the rate of deterioration.
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it’s slow unless it’s about increasing military spending and support for Israel, then it’s very fast!
