The really depressing thing about this, and many other “unexplained” aerial phenomena, is that it demonstrates how many people just never fucking look up at the sky.
Meanwhile, the government: “That’s fucking stupid. We don’t poison you with the air, that would be inefficient. We have to breathe that, too. We just poison the water and the soil, and if you’re a target we will just pick you up off of the street like a stray cat, we’ve always been very up front about that.”
This thing is real, they’re spreading dihydrogen monoxide vapours everywhere. Moreover every single dead person has the same thing in their body. Coincidence? I think /s
Conspiracy theories are an outlet. People need a reason for why society is not as good as they feel it could be.
Most people blame the other political party. But that doesn’t work for everybody. The mind keeps looking until it finds a reason, and then it fades out all arguments that oppose it.
We laugh about conspiracy theorists, but most have the same mindset, just with socially acceptable topics.
Yeah real chemical companies dump their chemicals straight into a river.
Nice thinking, you’re correct and after trying to avoid that pattern you become extremely aware of your own flawed opinions and how others don’t care as long as it means they aren’t pinned as the fault or reason
I had my conspiracy theory ex brother in law explain that chem trails were things Biden added to jets to fight global warming… My response was “shit, I wish that was true!”
Somehow that wasn’t the answer he was expecting.
wish that was true
“It’s chemicals!”
“It’s spider webs of chemicals!”
“It’s microchips!”
“It’s sun blocking special metallic smoke!”
“It’s cancer seeds!”
- My Mom, an expert on chemtrails
“It’s chemicals!”
Technically correct, I guess.
Well, and “it causes cancer” is as well. But not like… It’s raining down cancer on you. More like jet fuel contains known carcinogens.
It’s more the direct effects. According to my mom, the chemtrails should have…I don’t know, but done whatever it was supposed to be doing by now. A 30+ year timeline for something causing cancer? So less bad than smoking? That’s the metric?
At least some nutters have the decency to say that it’s mind controlling chemicals, not the “you’ll be dead soon” kind.
Kind of like the covid vaccine. I should have been dead in
368 monthsa year2 years3 years4 yearsI’ll be dead in 5 years!Do they say what purpisebtheyee being mind controlled? How about the impracticality of mind controlling millions of random people with no special access or skills, and you’re not even there to tell them what to do?
Can’t we at least inject some logic into the chemtrails conspiracy, like it’s a mild sedative to keep you from worry what they’re doing and to keep you from standing up for your rights?
All those second amendment types talk about how they would repel an unjust government, but they never actually do. It must be the chrmtrsils making them docile
H2O
The most scary of chemicals
Dihydrogen Monoxide kills thousands of people every year. It should be banned! /s
I know people who believe all the BS about the chemtrails, and I have started telling them that yes, those are chemtrails.
And, like a good person I tell that it is Dihydrogen Monoxide.
Then we go from there.
The best kind of correct.
What kind of cancer will those seeds grow into?
Yes
Do they also grow into lobsters, or do they believe in crab superiority.
I sea what you did there.
The fourth one of those is unfortunately an almost plausible theory. Plenty of people are seriously advocating for studies into Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (SAI) in order to mitigate climate change so that the almighty free market would have more time to fix the problem without any need for systemic change.
But that wouldn’t be visible to the naked eye :D
Funnily enough, contrails like all other clouds composed of ice crystals actually warm the planet up by letting shortwave radiation from the sun through while reflecting longwave (infrared), effectively trapping heat. Thcker and lower clouds are more effective at reflecting shortwave radiation.
Yes, but the conspiracy theory version is that it’s a scam to further the scam that is climate change. It doesn’t make any sense.
doesn’t make any sense.
My theory?
The real conspiracy: It always goes back to the desires of capital.
Why is it always that climate change is a huge con job and it’s all a secret control plan that we…need to stop burning and breathing known carcinogens?
Oh, because the evil shadow government orgs like the EPA and OSHA want to take all our good ol’ jobs (tey derk er jurbz!) with their “regulations” and “standards” and “penalties for pollution” right?
And they’re trying to make America “less great” by no longer being a mass-polluting post-war economic powerhouse! Think of the lost profits! Think of the widespread misery and poverty wrought by a secret New World Order of…(Paper flip) corporate regulation! What’s next? Unions?!
Yes, chem trails are ultimately a path to such horrors as a less wealthy C-suite and not putting clean air on the commodities exchange market. (gasp)
…And all these conspiracies are seeded and peddled by the very sources that told people to take veterinary dewormers or inject sanitizer to cure a virus, have brought us the highest unemployment rates seen in a century, dismantled and fired safety regulation and watchdog agencies (deh DERK-A-DURRBS!), are trying to bring back child labor and company towns, and conveniently rail against taxation which they dodge anyway.
Sure, but I think the cultural component of Agent Orange had a lot to do with it as well. That’s why it’s always sprayed by planes.
Oh no, not the chemicals!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist with NASA’s Langley Research Center, has said that logic does not dissuade most chemtrail proponents: “If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy’”.
Dude on my Facebook posted a Pic of some repurposed 747 with a bunch of tubes in the cabin with a caption about the chemtrail stuff taking up space. Like, motherfucker, if it takes that much space, how is every passenger jet doing it??
Those diagrams and pictures are a disinformation campaign. They show a system that obviously can’t function, so you dismiss the theory out of hand.
But the reality is that they mix the mind control chemicals directly into regular jet fuel. The pilots don’t even know they are involved.
/s
Isn’t the conspiracy that some planes are doing it. Not all planes?
Depends on who you ask.
I mean, every single flight spraying chemicals is ridiculous.
But a conspiracy that a small number of jet planes have tanks specifically designed for spraying chemicals at high altitude is not unbelievable at all.
That or you’re just “asleep” and need to “wake up”.
But these are the same people saying things are too “Woke”
So which is it?
🤣
Wake up, but don’t be woke, obviously.
So be half asleep
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray
From the page:
Between 1949 and 1969, open-air tests of biological agents were conducted 239 times.
239 open-air tests of biological agents in a 20 year period. Remind me again why people have no reason to be paranoid? This wasn’t that long ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
These aren’t conspiracy theories.
Is there something real behind these people’s paranoia and suspicion? Do our government, military, and our corporations inspire trust?
Is there something real behind these people’s paranoia and suspicion? Do our government, military, and our corporations inspire trust?
No, the US government, as with every government, does not deserve trust. They are not your friend. They will lie to you, directly or by omission.
However, all governments are bad at coverups. Chem trails would need to have entire leagues and fields paid off and prohibited from investigating it. Not just in America, but world wide. If America was doing Chem trails, there’s nothing really prohibiting China or Russia from calling it out. They have zero reasons to agree to deals to limit their scientists, as it would be a major shake up in geopolitics. America in that instance could not be trusted with any claims of its scientific achievements.
I don’t really buy into a moon landing hoax or a JFK cover up. By now, everything and everyone involved would have had to been paid off, including families, scientists, historians, and more.
You don’t need to be mad at a vague shadow government, you can be mad at the actual government for what they are actually doing. Be mad at Tuskegee and Gulf of Tonkin, not 9/11 with wire bombs and plane holograms.
I’m not making an argument for chemtrails. It’s pointless to speculate about, there is no evidence or smoking gun.
I’m just suggesting that we be kind and empathetic towards individuals that do believe these sorts of things. Is it out of character for the US government? Nah, not really.
Many of these people probably were living in or around 1969. In their lived reality, the US government was doing shit like this. Have things really gotten better?
EDIT: Sorry for the essay LOL.
I really appreciate your take and efforts to be compassionate about the loads of people who simply were let down by a lack of, or sometimes learned cultural opposition to, education. We’re paying for it so hard right now.
I mean, yeah, MK-Ultra was a very real program, for instance. The Cold War Era was loaded with shadowy nonsense conducted by spooks, all over the place! Real conspiracies totally happened!
But people on the whole crave sensation and don’t have the logic or education to discern between whistleblowers and grifters.
I think the part that is so painful is that there’s just so much noise.
It feels like conspiracy theories generally used to be…More harmless? More often the stuff of kooky neighbors and not always dangerously deluded basement militants and chart-topping podcasts.
Now it’s a carefully engineered, algorithmically driven pipeline from the former to the latter.
Now, thanks to social media, they’re politically weaponized psy-ops: Get the masses all riled up about aliens, mind-control vaccines, and satanic child-farming underground pizza delivery chain networks…
…And they won’t bother to focus their energy any real and “boring” conspiracies, like monopoly-forming, price fixing, shrinkflation, planned obsolescence, cop unions, the insurance industry, manufacturing consent, stock market manipulation, wage theft, billionaire bunkers, car-required civic planning, surveillance normalization, gerrymandering, Cambridge Analytica, McKinsey, class warfare, too-much-to-list about Boeing…
Because those are very real problems perpetuated by very bad powerful people, and they take a ton of very risky work to fix.
And those conspiracies are so very boring and predictable, because it’s a massive shell game with a million little nodes that all lead to countless instances of “Someone is doing these bad things to amass more money or influence.”
Last note: It’s also really odd and telling how the ones who are SO adamant about government conspiracies don’t tend to care much about corporations.
Government mind control chips in water (to make us more… subservient or something?) Totes!
But ad companies listening to your devices to figure out when you’re at your weakest to push ads for foolish purchases?
Naaaaah!
Thanks for the response, I enjoyed reading it and our sentiment largely aligns.
These aren’t conspiracy theories.
They once were, and then they were proven to be true.
Of course, a true conspiracy unfolds because the masses are unaware. The masses are gaslit if they start catching on.
But in the absence of compelling evidence, it’s pointless to wildly speculate about from my perspective.
But in the absence of compelling evidence, it’s pointless to wildly speculate about from my perspective
I think that is lazy and naive. For example, is it really pointless to speculate about the official explanation for, say, the deadliest mass shooting by a lone gunman in American history?
If I was there, if I was involved in law enforcement, if I had access to the crime scene and raw footage and evidence, I might be able to speculate. Armchair speculation is insufficient for me.
There are plenty of events that raise legitimate questions and concerns - like suspicious, high profile deaths that are immediately ruled as suicide. Everybody is free to hold their own positions and perspectives as far as I am concerned. Question on, sate your concern and curiosity, you’ll get no arguments against that from me.
You can’t ration people out of positions they did not rationalize themselves into.
Understanding is cemented in one’s original source of information about the world. Shaping a pre-existing understand requires not just accuracy but volume, because you’re not competing against faulty logic. You’re competing against accumulated memories.
If someone is deep into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, what is shaping their opinion is the consistent repetition of orthodoxy over time. Similarly, if someone is highly educated in a particular scientific field, their opinion is shaped by the persistent need to reaffirm fundamental truths in order to succeed and progress. We are not computers. We are not creatures of pure logic. We are the accumulation of our prior experiences and exposures.
You should not be surprised if an individual - when confronted with a narrow band of contrary information - does not immediately jettison all their prior information. Because ask yourself - would you? I mean, if a single guy showed up with a stack of papers insisting he’s proved without a shadow of a doubt that chemtrails are real and the entire professional weather reporting community is lying to you, is there anything they could show you that you wouldn’t greet with skepticism proportional to your exposure to professional weather science?
Because, if the answer is “No”, then why would you expect someone immersed in hundreds of hours of conspiracy theory podcasts and think pieces and social media conversations to behave any differently?
Because even if chemtrails were a thing they’re logistically impractical. There are multiple unlikely leaps of logic
There are multiple steps of logic here
- can aircraft spray chemicals? Sure, we have ag planes and fire fighting planes. In Vietnamese War we sprayed defoliant
- is there a mind control chemical that can be sprayed?
- if there was, could someone benefit from widespread dispersion?
- can you spread it through jet engine exhaust within it destroying it?
- is it possible to include with regularly scheduled air service without passengers or crew noticing?
- how many people would have to be in on the conspiracy and what are the chances of keeping it secret so long?
So the current examples of spraying from plane do so all at once through special equipment. You’d notice plus can’t really be widespread. It’s extremely unlikely a chemical could be mixed into jet fuel, survive the combustion process, and be spread with enough concentration to be useful. There’s no way such a large program would go unnoticed, could possibly be kept secret. Most importantly, for what purpose? If someone were trying to mind control the whole country what does it benefit to dose a random person in a field with no special skill or access and where there’s no one around to control them?
They think this is bad but think the lead in plane fuel is fine
This reminds me of the time when I was a kid and me and several of my family members went racing out into the front yard to watch the plane that was doing all kinds of aerial acrobatics over our neighbors’s field dropping whatever chemical or fertilizer was in their tanks that day so we were all basically coated in it by the time they were done and we went back inside. Except I wasn’t a kid when it happened, I was a fully informed adult who should have known better and then a few days later we found out it was some kind of potentially dangerous fungicide. But on the plus side I now have 3 penises.
This reminds me of my parents’ stories of running out to play in the clouds of DDT when the spray trucks went through the neighborhood
I got back in touch with a friend of mine who who graduated in the same class as me with a B.S. in Physics. When they learned that I’m an atmospheric scientist, their first question was “What’s the deal with Chem trails?”
Point being, conspiracy theories also infect the educated sometimes.
On the other hand, we have seen exhaust being very efficient in distributing chemicals with adverse health effects across the planet. Leaded gasoline was a huge oopsie that still has adverse health effects today.
Does it still cause harm? Or are people “just” still harmed by the exposure back then?
I think it has gotten a lot better in the past 10 years, but there are still a lot of places where there is too much lead in the environment. It doesn’t degrade at all, so unless it’s dealt with it just stays there. Given we’ve only gotten rid of leaded gasoline less then 3 decades ago, the effects are still very much there.
Trump will bring it back, just wait
My personal theory is that we’ve got Trump (partially) because of the lead… So that would make it go full circle.
General aviation still uses leaded gas almost exclusively. It’s really hard to qualify replacements though the FAA, and airports don’t want to carry multiple fuel types.
I’ve read that most of the lead from leaded gasoline is still in the environment, where it does cause harm. It it’s in the soil, and that can get into people through a variety of means.
I don’t know if it’s universal but here every kid is tested for lead. When we did that, our pediatrician warned not to grow vegetables within 10’ of the house.
For any house in the us built before mid 1970s you most likely had lead exterior paint Which would contaminate the soil. However they weren’t concerned about it still being concentrated enough to harm people directly, only if you ate contaminated vegetables
The lead will never go away, but it does disperse, mix in, get covered over time
Where is “here” out of curiosity?
Northeast us. A big distinction is we were built out before most of the country. The land has been settled longer and you’re much more likely to find houses that have been around longer. Even when you find modern houses, they are likely on a lot previously having an older house. So, yeah, lead contamination is more likely than areas with more recent growth
I have absolutely no idea how common lead testing is, but I also know most of the region trends blue, more likely to be aware of potential public health issues and do something about it
And in a country with dogshit standards for HS science. And math. And reading. And history.
More like “High school science failed them” right?
Which country is that?
We’ll need to include geography too.
The only planes actually dropping chemicals are just doing farm work.
When I read /r/teachers and all the trouble they’re having teaching the next generation, this is the sort of thing I imagine is coming. A couple of years ago, GenZ was saying, in essence, “We just need to wait for all the ‘boomers’ to die off, then everything will be better.” No. No, that will just make things worse. GenX leftists are the only ones holding the line, and Millennial teachers are about to give up and walk away, seriously. It’s pretty fuckin’ bad, and it’s clear it’s going to get worse, looking at how many kids are coming up through the school system who can barely read and write and have practically zero attention span or motivation.
Hi there, gen Z person here. Things are bad but remember that, as always, you only see and hear about the vocal minority. No matter how poor American education standards are, it is irrefutable that Trumpism could not exist without idiots from all generations. The education paradigms we are emerging from cannot possibly be worse than those which produced tens of millions of conservatives and hundreds of millions of nonvoters. This is specifically because of those gen X leftists and millennial teachers you mentioned. We aren’t competing as generations–failures of the past become the lessons of the present because older generations also have smart people. So how do you know gen Z won’t do even better? Everything else aside, growing up under fascism creates widespread discontent. I’d say from personal knowledge that for every one gen Z kid that believes in the system are five who at least recognize it’s broken.
Now, I won’t pretend to be particularly optimistic either; things are bad. However, I also want to believe that we can and will do better. And maybe I’ll be wrong, but at least I haven’t given up hope.
A lot of us realized the futility of the current system and put our hopes on gen z to be better, to rebuild, to have the sense to build the future, not tear it down. For there to be a huge change when the boomers finally give it up.
Unfortunately this election showed gen z to be just as flawed as the rest of us. It’s getting harder to hope but maybe my kids will help save the world
Here’s a new clearer statement to express my thoughts on the matter.
Contrails are visible and normal and fine. I probably don’t fully understand the science behind them, but I realize what we are seeing is water vapor.
Chemtrails are also real though. They are invisible to the naked eye and are directly contributing to global warming as well as some health concerns that are hard to quantify. They are not some conspiracy to control or disable the masses. The exhaust of cars and especially planes leave a trail of harmful chemicals behind them. The reason for this is because we care more about convenience and money than we do about the ecosystem we live in.
I personally believe pointing out that dichotomy is more useful than laughing at people who are misinformed.
that’s not a workable strategy because when you redefine terms like that you sound just like a conspiracy theorist. exhaust gases are not “chemtrails”, they’re exhaust gases. they’re dangerous and everywhere, but they’re not a secret government conspiracy.
we don’t need a “new way” to talk about things with people who refuse to understand.
Chemtrails are broadly believed to be nefarious chemicals that alter everything from weather (to facilitate global warming, not to prevent it) to human/animal hormones. While exhaust is no doubt harmful, when conspiracy theorists speak of chemtrails, they are speaking of shady government operatives intentionally loading the planes with experimental chemicals that are meant to be rained down onto the masses.
Can you blame them when the US government has directly experimented on the American populace in past?
e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray
From the page:
Between 1949 and 1969, open-air tests of biological agents were conducted 239 times.
239 open-air tests of biological agents in a 20 year period. Many, many people are still alive from that time period. It’s not that long ago.
Or more broadly, just look at this page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
Do those pages inspire trust in the government and military? Would you know if you were being experimented on and gaslit?
Corporations engage in similar unethical behavior, like putting ingredients that are known to be toxic or harmful to human health in products we consume or put on our bodies.
Instead of blaming or name-calling people who are paranoid or suspicious, we need a society with a greater focus on human rights — with more regulation and oversight. A society that inspires trust, with the facts, ethics, and independent review to back it up.
Instead of blaming or name-calling people who are paranoid or suspicious
You’re leaving out the massively important fact that a basic science fact that one can experiment and experience themselves on a cool morning is enough to destroy these idiots. If your world view is that fragile then you deserve all mockery you get for holding it continually
Why go out of your way to disprove them, laugh at them, or name-call them? You can just empathize with them.
For me, I’d rather address why the government HAS felt it had the right to experiment on us. I can NOT blame these individuals for treading into delusion with our current system being the way it is, especially considering the history.
Why go out of your way to disprove them, laugh at them, or name-call them
They’re willingly living in stupidity. If we just let people do that we get people like Trump, so Id rather avoid that
I can NOT blame these individuals for treading into delusion
Neither can I, but as I said you’re purposefully ignoring a big part of what’s being discussed: the part where they don’t ever tread back out of delusion. There’s 0 defense for that
The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.”
Hillary Clinton, the DNC, and mainstream media played a pretty big role in Trump’s rise to power. Everybody is responsible for his rise to power, but the facts are facts. They intentionally elevated him.
They’re willingly living in stupidity. If we just let people do that we get people like Trump, so Id rather avoid that
These people don’t have power over others like Trump.
Neither can I, but as I said you’re purposefully ignoring a big part of what’s being discussed: the part where they don’t ever tread back out of delusion. There’s 0 defense for that
You aren’t responsible for other’s beliefs. You are loosely reveling in their suffering, whether you realize it or not. They are very concerned and are likely vulnerable individuals.
Plenty of things happen in this world that each respective populace doesn’t consent to.
Seriously, why single them out for going a little crazy? It’s not like I haven’t pointed at somebody and laughed in the past, so no judgement here, but the whole system and world order is nuts and we need something new.
If you are worried about people holding factually incorrect or wrong beliefs, e.g. delusions, then advocate for decentralized media, unbiased news organizations, etc. Help elevate voices that help others to climb out of their delusions and fear.
These people don’t have power over others like Trump.
These are the people voting Trump in, dude, you cant actually be this dense
You aren’t responsible for other’s beliefs
No, but I do try to make the world a less stupid place when I can
You are loosely reveling in their suffering, whether you realize it or not.
If they’re too stupid to learn basic science then I reeeeally don’t care
They are very concerned and are likely vulnerable individuals.
Ok? They’re also very stupid individuals, I don’t care at all what makes them believe the blatantly stupid thing, only that they refuse to accept reality
Seriously, why single them out for going a little crazy?
Because it’s a very obvious and easy one to point out. There are posts about other delusions all the time, this one just happened to be about these specific people
If you are worried about people holding factually incorrect or wrong beliefs, e.g. delusions, then advocate for decentralized media, unbiased news organizations, etc.
I also do this. Weird of you to assume that someone on Lemmy doesn’t just because they also don’t respect people who refuse to think
You’re doing an awful lot of defending of people who are choosing to behave the way they do, it’s weird. Gonna file you in with them and call it a day, you don’t seem to be too far from them in the ol’ comprehension skill
Contrails are assholes. They are too thin to reflect sunlight, but they soak up and trap heat. They form a blanket and contribute a ton to global warming.
