Oh I’m not looking to exonerate ANY of these motherfuckers. If I had my druthers, they’d all fucking hang. Whether they’re home-grown, or Russian sponsored, every single one of them is a fucking traitor.
Edit: honestly, the current situation in America gives me a whole new appreciation for why the French decided they needed to industrialize murder during their revolution, and invented the guillotine to do so.
Edit 2 (Treasonous Boogaloo): I truly mean ALL. Your sweet aunt, who voted for Trump because she was concerned about Fox’s reporting about the migrant caravans at the border? Fucking traitor. I sincerely hope she dies. Your uncle, who’s a bit of a conspiracy nut, who is an avid Alex Jones listener? I pray he gets trapped in a raging inferno. Your parents, who you cut out of your life because they kept ranting about immigrants taking American jobs at every social event? I pray they find themselves trapped in a Cybertruck that’s in the middle of a battery-overload event. Everybody who voted for Trump, regardless of how many times they voted for him, deserves a traitor’s death. 100% of them, zero exceptions, no backsies.
I’m sorry but this just doesn’t work. A society that abandons hope for the redemption of the worst transgressors of its social norms is a society like the US, with the fifth highest incarceration rate in the world (after El Salvador, Cuba, Rwanda, and Turkmenistan). You can’t just kill the traitors just like you can’t just imprison all the murderers and political dissidents.
Redemption does work. It is documented within the most extreme circumstances. It’s not easy and it requires time and resources. But it can only happen with patience and kindness. And I admit that this brings with it a lot of contradictions but I won’t be a part of an extermination campaign no matter how grotesque the vermin might appear.
You can’t just kill the traitors just like you can’t just imprison all the murderers and political dissidents.
I agree that it’s impractical. If I could Thanos-snap them out of existence, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, such easy solutions are not possible. So if we ever do have any hope of recovering the ideal of a country based on the rule of law, we’ll have to figure out what punitive or rehabilitative measure to take against a fifth of our population. Rehabilitation would be extremely difficult, though, as anybody with a Trumper for a family member will attest.
One of the mistakes Germans (+ occupying forces) and the Austrians made after WW II was pardoning / “washing clean” Nazis after the war. Eg. the Austrian far right party FPÖ was founded by an SS member, and I’d be surprised if the AfD didn’t have Nazis in its family tree as well.
People who support fascism can’t be rehabilitated, except for a tiny minority.
Yeah, the US took in a bunch of Nazis, too, and we put them to work in research labs and our space program. I guess complicity in the slaughter of millions wasn’t a deal-breaker for our government at the time, so long as they could help get us to the moon.
But that’s the thing: Nazis weren’t really even displaced, and many kept their jobs in eg. the judiciary because they were seen as indispensable. The failure of denazification was on display especially egregiously in Austria, where you’d have people openly wearing Nazi uniforms years after the war, and they concoted the idea that they were all just unwilling victims of Nazism instead of enthusiastic participants.
I get the strength of your feelings, but for now the MAGAts aren’t actually killing people. Yet, maybe, but that remains to be seen. By calling for their deaths, and doubling down on it, you are making yourself worse than them. Killing political opponents is something we see in places like Russia and Iran, not in a (supposedly) advanced democracy like the USA, where a wide political spectrum is meant to be part of the design.
(BTW I’m British, and a big fan of what America SHOULD be. Somewhat less enthusiastic about what you’ve become.)
The reason we’re seeing this sort of stuff coming to the forefront, IMHO, is because the mainstream political parties aren’t listening to the people’s legitimate concerns about immigration, poor public services, lack of work and so on. So when the Nazis strut in, apparently championing all that stuff, it’s hardly surprising when people vote for them. The solution is not to murder those voters but for the mainstream parties to take that stuff into consideration and make sure the far right remains “fringe”. There will always be far-righters, the trick is to minimise their influence.
The rise of Nazism really needs to be a wakeup call for the moderates: you aren’t listening to some really important stuff, you need to start, and no it’s not “racist”.
but for now the MAGAts aren’t actually killing people.
Killing people is not a requirement for being a traitor.
By calling for their deaths, and doubling down on it, you are making yourself worse than them.
Death is the prescribed punishment for treason in this country. I did not invent that punishment, I am simply saying that these people are traitors, and we hang traitors here. Or at least, we should, according to the laws on our books.
advanced democracy like the USA, where a wide political spectrum is meant to be part of the design.
Hey - I’m all for horrible people having horrible political takes and being able to voice their awful opinions in the public marketplace of ideas. But when you storm the capital and attempt to overthrow the government, that is no longer expressing an opinion. That is being a traitor. Anybody who voted for Trump after that is aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.
The solution is not to murder those voters but for the mainstream parties to take that stuff into consideration and make sure the far right remains “fringe”.
Yeah, well, it’s a bit too late for that. The Republican party has long since embraced the cult of Trump. They’ve been completely hollowed out by Trumpists and there’s no going back without the entire party collapsing. The sane ones in that party know this, and so despite the fact that they’re terrified of Trump and his cultists, they’ll still vote for everything he wants.
I understand that you see an extreme position like mine, and find it anathema to your sensitivities as someone who doesn’t have to live among these people, but let me assure you: the US is a full on fascist country now. The only way to claw back any semblance of a normal country is through extreme measures. Talking it out is not going to cut it anymore.
Oh I’m not looking to exonerate ANY of these motherfuckers. If I had my druthers, they’d all fucking hang. Whether they’re home-grown, or Russian sponsored, every single one of them is a fucking traitor.
Edit: honestly, the current situation in America gives me a whole new appreciation for why the French decided they needed to industrialize murder during their revolution, and invented the guillotine to do so.
Edit 2 (Treasonous Boogaloo): I truly mean ALL. Your sweet aunt, who voted for Trump because she was concerned about Fox’s reporting about the migrant caravans at the border? Fucking traitor. I sincerely hope she dies. Your uncle, who’s a bit of a conspiracy nut, who is an avid Alex Jones listener? I pray he gets trapped in a raging inferno. Your parents, who you cut out of your life because they kept ranting about immigrants taking American jobs at every social event? I pray they find themselves trapped in a Cybertruck that’s in the middle of a battery-overload event. Everybody who voted for Trump, regardless of how many times they voted for him, deserves a traitor’s death. 100% of them, zero exceptions, no backsies.
I’m sorry but this just doesn’t work. A society that abandons hope for the redemption of the worst transgressors of its social norms is a society like the US, with the fifth highest incarceration rate in the world (after El Salvador, Cuba, Rwanda, and Turkmenistan). You can’t just kill the traitors just like you can’t just imprison all the murderers and political dissidents.
Redemption does work. It is documented within the most extreme circumstances. It’s not easy and it requires time and resources. But it can only happen with patience and kindness. And I admit that this brings with it a lot of contradictions but I won’t be a part of an extermination campaign no matter how grotesque the vermin might appear.
I agree that it’s impractical. If I could Thanos-snap them out of existence, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, such easy solutions are not possible. So if we ever do have any hope of recovering the ideal of a country based on the rule of law, we’ll have to figure out what punitive or rehabilitative measure to take against a fifth of our population. Rehabilitation would be extremely difficult, though, as anybody with a Trumper for a family member will attest.
One of the mistakes Germans (+ occupying forces) and the Austrians made after WW II was pardoning / “washing clean” Nazis after the war. Eg. the Austrian far right party FPÖ was founded by an SS member, and I’d be surprised if the AfD didn’t have Nazis in its family tree as well.
People who support fascism can’t be rehabilitated, except for a tiny minority.
Yeah, the US took in a bunch of Nazis, too, and we put them to work in research labs and our space program. I guess complicity in the slaughter of millions wasn’t a deal-breaker for our government at the time, so long as they could help get us to the moon.
We had the same problem after the civil war.
The slavers were kept out of power for 10 years, with excellent results.
Then political priorities shifted and they were allowed back into power.
Cue the KKK, Jim Crow, and the resumption of ‘Southern Culture’ (ie evil racial brutality).
The nazis were largely displaced for decades, the slaver class wasn’t, and it destroyed America.
But that’s the thing: Nazis weren’t really even displaced, and many kept their jobs in eg. the judiciary because they were seen as indispensable. The failure of denazification was on display especially egregiously in Austria, where you’d have people openly wearing Nazi uniforms years after the war, and they concoted the idea that they were all just unwilling victims of Nazism instead of enthusiastic participants.
I get the strength of your feelings, but for now the MAGAts aren’t actually killing people. Yet, maybe, but that remains to be seen. By calling for their deaths, and doubling down on it, you are making yourself worse than them. Killing political opponents is something we see in places like Russia and Iran, not in a (supposedly) advanced democracy like the USA, where a wide political spectrum is meant to be part of the design.
(BTW I’m British, and a big fan of what America SHOULD be. Somewhat less enthusiastic about what you’ve become.)
The reason we’re seeing this sort of stuff coming to the forefront, IMHO, is because the mainstream political parties aren’t listening to the people’s legitimate concerns about immigration, poor public services, lack of work and so on. So when the Nazis strut in, apparently championing all that stuff, it’s hardly surprising when people vote for them. The solution is not to murder those voters but for the mainstream parties to take that stuff into consideration and make sure the far right remains “fringe”. There will always be far-righters, the trick is to minimise their influence.
The rise of Nazism really needs to be a wakeup call for the moderates: you aren’t listening to some really important stuff, you need to start, and no it’s not “racist”.
Killing people is not a requirement for being a traitor.
Death is the prescribed punishment for treason in this country. I did not invent that punishment, I am simply saying that these people are traitors, and we hang traitors here. Or at least, we should, according to the laws on our books.
Hey - I’m all for horrible people having horrible political takes and being able to voice their awful opinions in the public marketplace of ideas. But when you storm the capital and attempt to overthrow the government, that is no longer expressing an opinion. That is being a traitor. Anybody who voted for Trump after that is aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.
Yeah, well, it’s a bit too late for that. The Republican party has long since embraced the cult of Trump. They’ve been completely hollowed out by Trumpists and there’s no going back without the entire party collapsing. The sane ones in that party know this, and so despite the fact that they’re terrified of Trump and his cultists, they’ll still vote for everything he wants.
I understand that you see an extreme position like mine, and find it anathema to your sensitivities as someone who doesn’t have to live among these people, but let me assure you: the US is a full on fascist country now. The only way to claw back any semblance of a normal country is through extreme measures. Talking it out is not going to cut it anymore.