My mother, born, raised, and still lives in Norway, was anti-mask during COVID and refused to take the vaccine because of micro-robots (and the scary 5G towers), so we all know where she stands in certain topics. She also believes that Zelenskyy is the reason for Russia invading Ukraine…
Anyhoo, I was talking to her then other day, and she told me that I need to stop reading anti-propaganda. I laughed and asked if she could explain it, which she, of course, could not, but she said it’s a wording being used online all the time. I don’t frequent the sites she does, and I’ve known she’s been reading conspiracies for at least 10 years, but anti-propaganda? Does words not have meaning anymore?
If you ask me, anti-propaganda is facts, but hey, I might be wrong, considering English is my second language.
anti propaganda is still propaganda, even if it’s factual.
So, she’s implicitly admitting that what SHE reads is propaganda…
If you ask me, anti-propaganda is facts
You know how “woke” (awake; aware of what’s going on) is considered a negative by the far right?
Their entire point is to abandon the facts of reality and instead live in a dream world where only their imagination is real. Facts and people who cling to the real world are their enemy to that end.
I feel like the word propaganda gets a little misused. There’s so much negativity attached to it, but propaganda at it’s core is media that tries to persuade someone. So media trying to undo misinformation about COVID is also propaganda.
I don’t believe most people that go down this road are going to listen to any logic. Trying to combat it by telling them they are wrong and why just makes them dig their heels in even more.
You can ask empathetic questions and try to learn what brought her here. A lot of people start a normal amount of right wing, and then the internet feeds them more and more far right stuff and this happens. There’s a sense of community and belonging to these spaces.
If you care about her and want to continue the relationship, ask that neither of you bring up politics and just talk about your lives, see if she has anything good going on, and encourage local activities if possible.
Channel 5 did a movie called Dear Kelly about a guy who went full conspiracy after losing his house and I believe custody of his kids. In the movie they talk about past trauma leading to this obsession.
Try to be compassionate if you can. It can be very difficult depending on the person and the existing relationship but I think it’s the only real way forward. Alternatively I also think if they are abusive or too over the top just cutting ties with them works too.
It can be very frustrating, but I hope it works out. Good luck!
Cut the source of the actual propaganda being pumped into her head.
Curiously, when these people are cut of from the source of hate and fear being pumped into their heads for a month or so, they start to be more rational.
That’s doing to be hard. She’s reading all the right-wing websites in Norway and Europe. I wish I could, and my brother and myself have told her multiple times in the past 5 years how wrong she is (“Norwegian government is hacking my Facebook because I’m critical to them” when Facebook photos were down for all of Europe for a few hours), but she does but listen. Might be because she looks at her children as children, and not actual grown men with degrees. She also lives in Spain now, so hard to do anything with her WiFi.
Yeah, I understand it’s easier said than done. I’m dealing with this with my older sister.
Wouldn’t it just be facts?
Propaganda isn’t necessarily lies. It is just biased towards the author’s agenda with the goal to persuade a target demographic. For example: an article (or pamphlets being air dropped over their lines) blasting Russia for summarily executing their own troops for retreating would both be factual and propaganda.
That said, I agree with your sentiment. Facts counter the ‘undesirable propaganda’.
That’s what I said lol
there is this great televsion show that was an offshoot of _DR _WHO__called Torchwood that dealt extensively with this subject in their final series where the people who want to take over the world hire a media consultant to not change the message from language to language, just the tone, certain phrases which change the meaning of something by occluding it with something comfortable…classic advertising, but the point is the same, propaganda is ALWAYS intentional and directed, and some will ALWAYS be susceptible… thank you for coming to my propaganda for science fiction and especially DR WHO
…in addition, there is this great scene in the movie DAVE_ where the guy sits with the cabinet in front of cameras and makes them explain stupid budget choices to save a children’s shelter;propaganda dies when shown the light of truth and shames it away…
Everything with a message is propaganda. If I tell you to where a mask to protect those around you it’s propaganda. Nobody is immune to propaganda.
Anti-propaganda would definitely mean factual information without bias or a message. It’s not a real thing though, so in their meaning they clearly just mean anything they disagree with.
I do think that we could give information without propaganda if we really mean it.
Or at least there are levels of propaganda.
My personal take is that propaganda is not true, like actual lies.
I know that “the best propaganda is true” and just excluding other information. But purposely giving just a small part of the information is a lie regardless, to me at least.
But if we were to give all the possible information on any matter I don’t think it could count as propaganda.
And, this is the funny part, this is my own propaganda, because one of my political beliefs is that we could make politics in a healthier way without using the “evil” tactics for a “good” outcome.
Wait so the alternative to anti-propaganda is just plain propaganda. She wants you to read propaganda?
No, she specifically told me to stop reading anti-propaganda 🤣
Technically, no propaganda of any sort at all.
Counter propaganda or anti-propaganda is just differently angled propaganda. You cannot fix propaganda with more propaganda.
If you want to understand your mom, you need to see or read what she sees. Just telling her she is wrong is not going to help. Repeating that she is wrong is jot g9ing to help.
Plus as an adult that she is, you might not be able to dissuade her. Perhaps, you may have to simply not touch the topic when with her.
When I was younger, I naively used to think that if I had the facts or Academic papers or research to prove point XYZ on side l, that I would be able to argue valiantly against some people I used to know. Ha, I was so silly. I could literally point or give the proof to my arguments on a silver platter, down to page numbers or exact quotes, and people would simply not even bother to read them, because they were certain they were right. Some people just want to be Right, not Correct. Due to such worldviews being driven not by fact but by emotion. Fear, anger, bias, lies by omission, but usually peppered with some facts here and there, etc.
Trying to change them, will just end up in damaging your current bonds. Do you want to risk that? Maybe over time. But just focus mostpy on what you have and enjoy the time you have, over spending it arguing. Life is short enough as it is.
The Street Epistemology approach could be useful in situations like this
What’s that?
This looks genuinely great, thanks for mentioning it. Here’s their website, with free learning resources.
Going to start this course today actually, didn’t realise
In comics Anti-hero, is not a villain. It’s a hero, using same tools as a villains do (Deadpool, Punisher, etc)
Anti-pripaganda. Is a propaganda with opposite vector. Same tools, different goal.
If propaganda is “USA is roten country with systemic oppression off all but 1%, that is comming for our freedom and our resources”, the anti-propaganda would be “USA is the greatest country in the word and things we do are good becouse we are ones doing it. What even is a Patriot Act? Only terrorist should worry about stuff like it.”
War is Peace, Peace is War.
Everyone should read 1984.Sur. But I personally think thay Brave New Word turned out to be much more relevant to westeners.
If she has accepted that she is pro-propaganda then maybe you need to link her to the Wikipedia page for the word.
“Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented”
I like the Oxford dictionary definition:
“The systematic dissemination of information, esp. in a biased or misleading way, in order to promote a particular cause or point of view, often a political agenda.”
So, it doesn’t matter what the bias is. It’s still propaganda. The opposite of that would be a balanced view without any bias. So, would that also imply restricting to just factual information?
Beyond a diverse sourcing of information one could consider sources which present their bias up front.
An analysis seated in a well communicated philosophy is better than one with its motive hidden behind a mask.
Furthermore, information being factual isn’t enough to be unbiased. Bias also applies to the selection of information being presented, or more importantly, not presented.
I started using anti-vaxx propaganda tactics satirically.
The goal is to show how the tactic is manipulative by applying it to something obviously not dangerous.
Water is easy, start insisting that “dihydrogen monoxide” is dangerous:
Celebrity just died? “They had dihydrogen monoxide before they died, maybe it killed them”
“All traffic fatalities in the last 5 years were link to people using dihydrogen monoxide”
“Dihydrogen overdoses kill people every year”
“Why is dihydrogen monoxide in everything? Why is big dihydrogen monoxide putting this in everything, what are they trying to do?”
“I bet Trump was on dihydrogen monoxide when he thought of his tariffs plan”
Etc
Did you know there are more hydrogen atoms in a single water molecule than stars in our whole solar system?
there are more hydrogen atoms in a single water molecule
Hydrogen atoms?! Didn’t they use that in the hydrogen bomb? And in the Hindenburg Disaster? OH THE HUMANITY!
This reminds me of the people that say they are anti-antifa.
"Anti-propaganda aims to undermine the effectiveness of propaganda by exposing its manipulative tactics, providing alternative perspectives, or offering factual information to counter biased claims.
I’d pick my battles and try to address the most harmful lines of thought first. Like anything medical for example. Deprogramming is a popular topic online so there are some resources out there.
Best of luck, it’ll be difficult until you find a foothold.
