[edit: I thank everyone for their comments and time. A lot of very interesting opinions and view points. Unfortunately also a lot of things that went away from the actual answer. So I’m thinking maybe this thread can be closed without deleting it?]
The more I hear people talk about it who aren’t cis-het men, the more I hear criticism about the concept. But so far, I’ve only heard people say that it’s stupid, that it’s not a thing, that it’s men’s own fault etc. But I’ve yet to understand where that criticism comes from. I don’t want to start a discussion on whether or not it’s real or not. I just want to understand where the critics are coming from.
I’ve seen two sides to it.
Side 1: “boo hoo nobody will fuck me because I don’t think other people should have rights”
Side 2: not having strong friendships/relationships because our society is built around capitalism, cars, and social media (this obviously applies across genders, side therefore is a generalized loneliness epidemic, not a male gendered one)
In my mind only the second side is worth listening to.
Side 2 has not actual relevance to the problem itself. These societal tropes are not why men are having a hard time finding women. It’s just a societal trope posing as an explanation.
Side 3 is the only relevant issue. Men are constantly told they need to be more vulnerable or their masculinity is toxic, and yet when they express themselves vulnerably, they’re punished for it.
The problem is that the people touting the toxic masculinity narrative (feminists) don’t take into account how much women reinforce toxic masculinity.
The deeper problem: feminists think they represent women to a far greater extent than they actually do. The fact of the matter is that most women don’t identify as feminists, and therefore feminists are representing liberal gender beliefs, rather than most women. Don’t get me wrong: I actually agree with feminists on balance, but their messaging is garbage, divisive, bullshit. Feminism is far too consumed by misandry to effectively argue their points in a way that could persuade the majority of men and women to support them. This is why they encounter so much failure when their cause is actually 90% right.
feminist has never been a coherent set of beliefs of messages. it’s a clusterfuck of viewpoints. many of which are contradictory.
especially 3rd/4th wave stuff that is mostly about social norms. earlier feminist was focused on political goals.