• Psychadelligoat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          American “cheese” is definitely ultra processed.

          American cheese is just Colby Jack and cheddar mixed with emulsifiers, it’d be a group 2 food on that chart unless you’re specifically referencing something like cheese-in-a-can or whatever

      • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10260459/

        Cheese, fermented and baked goods are typically processed, but can be ultra processed depending on the specifics of production.

        The image should provide a more concise feel.
        Basically:

        • pick it up off the ground and wash it.
        • crush it, chop it, toast it
        • crush, chop, toast and mix things from the previous two categories
        • the refined or reconstituted constituent portions of the above, optionally with other addictive not typically considered food in isolation.

        Unprocessed, minimally processed, processed and ultra processed, respectively.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification

        It’s not like this is a weird health nutter concept. It’s also not like these foods are necessarily as bad as some people like to act. But it is definitively objectively definable.

          • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Okay?

            People disagreeing on the boundaries or details of a definition doesn’t make it not an objective definition.

            It seems pretty clear to me that tea would fall into the ultra processed category, since it’s an extraction of a highly processed ingredient. Home baking, fermentation and cheese making would all be processed because they’re a transformation of unprocessed foods or processed food ingredients like flour. I’m not incredibly familiar with the classification system so I’m not sure where a piece of uncured beef, an unprocessed food, cooked with salt, a processed food ingredient, would go. I’m thinking it would be processed, like bread, but I’m not sure where seasoning falls.

            Disagreement in the boundary conditions is pretty normal. Geologists disagree on exactly where different types of rock fall on the classification scales. Biologists disagree on a wide array of animal taxonomic boundaries.
            You wouldn’t say that geology lacks an objective definition of what is or isn’t limestone, you’d just note that some people would disagree with the classification of some samples.

          • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            At the moment, “processed food” seems more buzz & connotation than substance

            Yes, we both agree on this. Organic, natural, etc. are all, scientifically, ill defined, advertising labels. However, in this particular discussion, people are pointing towards the way it is used in common lexicon, rather than a scientific, or technical one. When your average person says these things, they mean things that have gone through more processing than what was traditionally done, before the point of making a meal from it, or the after processing it goes through to make a meal have as long a shelf life as possible, etc. These processes include things like introducing additives to make the color better, the introduction of extracts, synthesized chemicals, etc., to enhance flavor, improve presentation, extend shelf life, etc. That are not traditional things like salting, smoking, drying, freezing/cooling, etc. That page from Harvard isn’t trying to be an authoritative statement on exactly what “ultra-processed” means to an industry, rather than to be a common framework, for the most general level of understanding, of the contemporary processes that food is put through, that are beyond traditional methodology.

              • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                Ok a recent example I have come across.

                I recently had my partner grab a loaf of pumpernickel, or other dark rye, while she was out shopping. Instead of going to the bakery we normally shop at, she grabbed a bag of “pumpernickel” off the shelf, at the super market. It is less than 2% rye. The flour mix is processed with cocoa and an unspecified alkali, to achieve the color, in the absence of enough dark rye flour. They also add an unspecified caramel coloring into the dough to complete the coloring. They then add natural, but otherwise not traditionally used, flavoring to better achieve the flavor of “pumpernickel”, again, minus the proper flour mix. They then add an extract propionic acid, mixed with a synthetic sorbic acid, to extend shelf life. They use synthetic monoglycerides to improve the stability of the emulsification, which both improves texture, and extends shelf life. They add soy based lipid extracts to preserve the “moist” feel of the bread.

                This is what people have in mind when they say ultra-processed. This is, in no way, how you would normally make pumpernickel. This is like a farce of this bread, that is cheaper, and much longer lasting, approximation of bread.

                  • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works
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                    2 months ago

                    Do the ingredients not have strange, synthetic additives?

                    They do not, each ingredient has to list everything that went into the product you get, and it will say only the stuff you want. If you buy a bag of flour, it will say (type) flour, and maybe give you the average protein content of the flour. If you buy a spice it will say the only ingredient is that spice. So, smaller scale bakers, as in not the “bakeries” in places like Walmart, will not have any of that in their food. If there is something that is heavily processed, in a not traditional manner, it will usually be an aspect that stands out, and you can simply ask them about what they use, like coloring in icing. If they make bread, they make normal bread, that will harden over night, and start molding in a couple days. A lot of places like this will also be happy to explain exactly how they make their products too, as they know that information can be crucial due to allergies, cultural stuff, etc. Most bakeries I know, now, exclusively use coloring that come from juices, spices, herbs, etc., that have vibrant colors. The trade-off is that they will not stay that vibrant for more than a day or two. If you request abnormal colors that are not sourced that way, they will inform you that they will have to use a dye that may be synthetic. I realize this isn’t everywhere, but I live in a small, dying, rust belt, city, so if I can get this kind of service, it should be fairly common outside of truly rural places. Though you might have to leave your suburb to get something in the city.